Are matching numbers rare?

[King Johhny]

Hello All
I was just curious, is matching numbers rare, or are they very common? Not all the rifles I see say they have matching numbers. Is that just a given?
Thanks

[Titanium Hammer]

I think this piece put together by racerguy will give you a good explanation.http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/ter ... index.html

[Junk Yard Dog]

With the Soviet refurbished Mosin matching numbers are the norm, not the exception, they were all force matched by the Soviets during the refurb. With Finn Mosins they are also the norm for the same reasons. They are less common with Mauser's or Enfields, these rifles didn't see the sort of massive refurb program the Mosin did, parts got swapped . With French Berthiers and Lebels matching numbers are rare, the French scrounged spare parts from the battlefield to assemble serviceable rifles and never matched any numbers. With US milsurps it is a nonissue because we never did that number every part bullshit, we just trained our soldiers to keep the parts that belong to their issue weapon with that weapon and we taught them why.

[jones0430]

Also, the later Mosins such as M44s that were manufactured in 46 or later tend to be little used and weren't in need of force matching. They "tend" to be original matching numbers as manufactured. If you run across one that shows heavy use, it may have been refurbed. Again, it depends upon what you are looking at.

[zeebill]

The Finnish Mosins were generally only matched on the barrel plate and the bolt, the other numbers will not matter much but at times were matched. This is especially true with M39's and later made refurbishments, like Post War ones. Really when you get down to War time creations of the Finn's they often left no numbers on the bolt or even lined the barrel numbers out and remarked them then teamed them with a non-matching bolt. Really I care little about matching numbers in a Finn as the first thing I am going to do is safety check all the settings to begin with. Many collectors are very anal in my eyes on numbers matching guns as I have found more numbers matching guns with different fonts in the serials and not safe to fire due to head space. That makes me very suspect of certain sellers who always have numbers matching rifles but very different fonts in the serials that match. The reason is they often are not head spaced right and that makes me wonder how and when the rifles were put together? Do I have an original Finn put together rifle or a recent made parts rifle assembled by the seller?

I am living proof that it does not take a genius to build a Mosin properly and have it shoot well, sometimes just a great cleaning, oiling, and safety check will result in a great rifle the performs just great with good accuracy. So while I trust me I have a great distrust for others (human Nature I guess) and when I see things just too right I begin to suspect. Generally if you buy a Finn from me what you see is the way it came unless something was broke or missing, miss numbered parts included. Other people I guess just don't think that way or they feel that numbered matching part will make them more money? You know what too, miss matched parts usually go right through head space and other checks with no issues while miss matched fonts of numbers matching parts have given me the most trouble over the years. Just hit that on a brand new looking M39 B barrel awhile back here that was straight from the auction block to me! You just have to write a book on things how they are and who you got them from I guess. Yes by the way I do have certain sellers I just won't buy from because of just what I am saying here. Bill

[docbob]

Well said, Bill!

[steelbuttplate]

If you ever run across a T-53 that matches and has a cleaning rod, buy it and keep it, It may be the only one....SBP.....63MN's

[Darryl]

If you ever run across a T-53 that matches and has a cleaning rod, buy it and keep it, It may be the only one....SBP.....63MN's

I have an all matching T53 with it's original cleaning rod. Only way I know it was original cleaning rod is, it was so badly rusted in place it took me days of working it and oiling it, then after days, I got it out after 30 mins more work. The rust was pretty bad.....D


Here it is "after" being cleaned up.




Before cleaning:

Band spring was OK (believe that or not), but you can see how much rust it left behind.




Here is the cleaning rod after removal.

[zeebill]

Wow that rod was really in there!! My one gunsmith buddy calls rust "Bubba's Rock of Ages Super Glue" He has a way with words sometimes! Bill

[Junk Yard Dog]

Common M44 problem when maintenance is slipshod, blood runs down the bayonet onto the rod and pools in the rod channel were it's never removed. The rod then rusts in place.

[Darryl]

Wow that rod was really in there!! My one gunsmith buddy calls rust "Bubba's Rock of Ages Super Glue" He has a way with words sometimes! Bill

Yeah, I had to use a lot of patience. Seems the only thing I have patience with is rusty items! With the rest, sometimes I have short supply. But if you want to make sure it is "original", then if it is "rusted in place" then it's a good bet it probably is. Looking down the barrel of that rifle and I'd say when it was in use, they never pulled out that rod and used it either. ......D

[steelbuttplate]

Also Blood runs in between the handguard and stock and gets left. I've had this on two T-53 and Two M-44 non refurbs. It ate a major crater in the barrel on one T-53, after a cleaning, I got behind a big tree with a welding glove on first time I shot it. It didn't blow, but anything nasty/rusty always take it apart before firing. SBP.....63 MN's

[SA1911a1]

If you ever run across a T-53 that matches and has a cleaning rod, buy it and keep it, It may be the only one....SBP.....63MN's

I really like the T-53s and matching numbers are not really rare. I own seven T-53s, four of them match, and one of those has a nearly new looking stock and perfect blue.
I bought about a half dozen grab-bag T-53s when Omega was selling them for $69.00 with no promise of condition. Of those, two were in such bad condition and with smooth bores as to be non-functional as a firearm and too bad to be display rifles. I was OK with the Omega purchases as the provided me with two guns worth of spare parts.

From peeking at Gunbroker, it appears that the T-53s have been gaining some respect.