Rusty M91 Bayonet - advice, please

[AJ333]

So I recently picked up a couple M91 lock ring bayonets from a comrade on Ebay.
They came, at a tidy sum, with vintage (?) leather frogs and scabbards. Of the 2, one of them is rusty. I inquired with the seller and he offered to send a replacement (still waiting for arrival from Eastern Europe) and let me keep the rusty one. I'm wanting to salvage it of its rust.

If it was a modern tool, I'd run it over with oil and fine steel wool. As a preservationist collector, I'd like to ask you, my mentors, your advice in what action I should take.

I'm pretty sure the rust removal would quickly remove any bluing that is left.

Of the 3 M91 bayonets I had on hand today, the rusty one seems different, maybe older than the other 2, significantly less bluing, more in the white (pics below).

My concern is that rust left on steel, will grow. My primary concern is to preserve the tool in as close to its original state as possible, forever. By the way, serial number on rusty Tula spike appears to be 246151

What say you?













Rusty one is on the left

[millman]

Scrub it down with oil and a bronze brush. That will remove any active rust. Then re-oil it. That is about all you can do. That should clean up pretty well.

[bunkysdad]

Yep, that sounds right

[one finger john]

Soak it in maple syrup. Then oil.

[redspoon]

Nice pickup My first thought was man you're picky but if you paid a tidy sum I would prolly complain also.

[AJ333]

Bronze brush and oil it is, then.
Fresh out of maple syrup.

Yeah, maybe that's a little picky, but the ad did say excellent condition and it wasn't cheap. Seller said he didn't see the rust under the grease. I asked him to just exchange, but I guess the shipping to Transylvania and hassle was too great, so he just offered to send another.

Thanks, guys.

[WeldonHunter]

I've heard this works pretty good too. http://www.frontiermetalcleaner.com/

[rsc]

I like ATF fluid when scrubbing rust. Tell us more about the frogs. Repro's?

[Longcolt44]

I've heard this works pretty good too. http://www.frontiermetalcleaner.com/

I have used this product for over 5 years when I first ran across it. It does remove the rust but not the bluing.

[AJ333]

The frontier metal cleaner looks interesting. Thick rust on this one, though.

I went with oil and brass brush.



I went a little light, stopped short of where I would have if it were a modern tool. Did my best to get just the red and not the blue. It seems the blue is gone already under the heavy rust. I kept the brush away from the couple rust specks nearer the base (hilt?) for fear of wrecking the bluing. Seemed to clean up well.







I definitely feel better about the condition now. I almost feel bad for asking for a replacement, but truth is I was spending that good money to get a great condition bayonet for my great condition rifle, so I feel okay about it. This rusty one cleaned up nice, though. I think it will serve as a good tool for running bayonet strike drills.

Oh wait, if I have an extra bayonet, I probably should get a rifle for it, right?

[millman]

The brass/bronze brush is softer than the blueing. It will only remove the rust. Any gold discoloration you see will be the brush wearing onto the steel. This will wipe right off.

[AJ333]

Tell us more about the frogs. Repro's?

I dont think the frogs are repros, and they were advertised as original russian manufactured equipment. From when I have no clue. The scabbards are pretty neat, too. I'll try to take some pics and post about them tomorrow, I'm sure one of our resident experts can fill us in on them.

[AJ333]

The brass/bronze brush is softer than the blueing. It will only remove the rust. Any gold discoloration you see will be the brush wearing onto the steel. This will wipe right off.

Bronze brush won't damage bluing? If that's the case I might go after it just a little more then.

[millman]

The brass/bronze brush is softer than the blueing. It will only remove the rust. Any gold discoloration you see will be the brush wearing onto the steel. This will wipe right off.

Bronze brush won't damage bluing? If that's the case I might go after it just a little more then.

No. That is the point. Brass is softer than, and hence won't hurt the blue.

[7x57]

Tell us more about the frogs. Repro's?

I dont think the frogs are repros, and they were advertised as original russian manufactured equipment. From when I have no clue. The scabbards are pretty neat, too. I'll try to take some pics and post about them tomorrow, I'm sure one of our resident experts can fill us in on them.

I also bought a couple of items (M91 bayonets, metal scabbards of Austro-Hungarian and German designs) from a Romanian seller and got a lot of background information from him about their origin. One came with the same type of frog like yours. A closer examination revealed the fact that these frogs are post-WWII Romanian frogs made for the bayonets of their Vz.24 Mauser-type rifles. Some (albeit not mine) even have Romanian maker markings. Martin08 posted a picture of one of his frogs he got from Romania with such markings here: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread. ... sion/page2. You got the typical Austro-Hungarian-made scabbards with your bayonets - not that rare like the German-made variant, but nice items nevertheless.

[zeebill]

Rust is a form of oxide as is normal gun bluing. When you remove the rust the gun blue has already been taken away by the rust which is stronger from a chemical and mechanical stand point. Hence the freckling as some people call it which is what you have left. As an alternative to active rust still working on the blue I would gladly take the freckling. The frontier pad that someone offered to you is what my boss used to use in the pawn shops and it does indeed work quite well. I was frankly scared to death of it when he whipped it out one day and started in on a gun we just took in trade which had ample rust on it. It actually did a pretty nice job but I still could see a slight scratching from it and that freckling while to a lesser degree was still there. Frankly if it is rusty it has done damage already and in my eyes the deed is done you will have visible damage of some kind. But then what is one to do just let it rust away and do nothing? I take a proactive stance and say do what you think will help to stop further damage and except the results.

I have seen where people have used a very fine blasting of some sort and reblued and that is easily spotted and tends to soften all the edges and not look like true Milsurp blue. I guess the ideal is to keep things covered with some kind of protectant and not allow rusting to happen in the first place. There is a catch though and that is we have no control over how people treat things before we get them. We just get the results! Bill

[one finger john]

Try maple syrup in a solution. Try a 25% solution in a small pan & check every couple days.

[zeebill]

Try maple syrup in a solution. Try a 25% solution in a small pan & check every couple days.

But my pancakes will get cold! Sorry it is late and I could not stop myself! Bill

[one finger john]