Recent Mosin Purchase from Bud's Guns

[A J]

I recently ordered a Mosin Nagant from Bud's Guns. I bought a couple of them before from Bud's and they always exceeded my expectations, so this time opted for the "Excellent Condition" Mosin. When it arrived at the FFL, it was a 1944 Ishevek, matching SNs, with a deep reddish stain and couple gouges. Hard to tell through the cosmoline, but the metal parts looked OK. Unfortunately, the whole front sight assembly was bent at a crazy angle and I had to refuse delivery. Both Bud's and my FFL were very cool about it. Realistically it will probably be another 2 weeks before they send a replacement.

I'm glad I took the time to carefully check over the rifle and just didn't blindly grab it and run out the door.

[jones0430]

Excellent condition does NOT mean damaged front sight.

[A J]

Excellent condition does NOT mean damaged front sight.

Agreed. I'm OK with some cosmetic imperfections but not with a front sight assembly. I'm sure this isn't the first time this has happened with these rifles. From what I understand, the rifles purchased by various retailers sight unseen. They are pre-graded and boxed up by the distributor, not by the retailer. Accessories are simply thrown into a box with no padding. Even the retailers have no idea what's inside. Kind of a goofy way to do business but Bud's has always been easy to deal with.

[Rongo]

Excellent condition tends to be whatever the newbie who fills the order thinks is the purdiest one. That's why I don't pay the premium & stick with the luck of the draw.

Hopefully the next one will be better.

[jones0430]

I looked at Bud's Guns site. The price they are asking is not a premium price.

[A J]

Excellent condition tends to be whatever the newbie who fills the order thinks is the purdiest one. That's why I don't pay the premium & stick with the luck of the draw.

Hopefully the next one will be better.

It is pretty much the luck of the draw. All the "very good" ones are sold out and only the "excellents" remain. You may be correct. The original graders could range from trained gunsmiths to part-time dock worker who is pissed off that he has to help out in the gun area. Actually, that's half the fun. You never know what you're going to get. That same pissed off dock worker may send me a turd or a gem. We'll see.

[SKhiSm 59-66]

Good catch on your part, and it sounds as if the seller is working with you so good on them too. It seems as if it's going to work to a happier ending than this painful read...

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=131577.0

[lalunette]

Sorry to hear about the front sight being messed up. Sounds like Bud's will make it all good.

Before I go, I have a question about your comment that the 1944 Ishevek had matching serial numbers.

My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, was that matching numbers on Mosin Nagants mean nothing as they are "force matched" when refurbished, where parts are scrubbed and force matched to the number on the receiver.

Also, I believe the only way to get a Mosin Nagant with matching numbers would be to find a "bring back" that escaped the refurbishment process.

Am I right or wrong in my assumptions?

I don't have an ego when it comes to learning about Mosin Nagants so feel free to educate me.

Cheers !!

[polymerase2]

I have often wondered about "hand select". The rifles show up in a sealed box, often in another sealed box. I wonder if hand select really means "thanks for the extra $10. I did pay $30 a few years ago for a bore select from J&G. Back then I felt really guilty paying $130 for a laminated round receiver Mosin with an almost pristine barrel.

[Longcolt44]

I can only speak for SOG. When they say best of 5 that is what they do. Last month an employee was sent home for a couple days for not doing as advertised.

[A J]

Sorry to hear about the front sight being messed up. Sounds like Bud's will make it all good.

Before I go, I have a question about your comment that the 1944 Ishevek had matching serial numbers.

My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, was that matching numbers on Mosin Nagants mean nothing as they are "force matched" when refurbished, where parts are scrubbed and force matched to the number on the receiver.

Also, I believe the only way to get a Mosin Nagant with matching numbers would be to find a "bring back" that escaped the refurbishment process.

Am I right or wrong in my assumptions?

I don't have an ego when it comes to learning about Mosin Nagants so feel free to educate me.

Cheers !!

Actually, I'm not the guy to ask. I've only owned Mosin Nagants for a couple years. Most of what I learned, I learned from this site, from the smart guys.

My understanding is that a "force matched" rifle would have old serial numbers on it that have been crossed out next to newer ones. I've heard that the rifles that have been force matched aren't any different in terms of their fit and function from the ones that haven't been force matched. Just about all the M1 Garands sold at the CMP are force matched and none of them is any worse for it. Again... I'm just a babe in the woods regarding Mosins, so please correct me if I'm not 100% accurate. Thanks.

[A J]

I can only speak for SOG. When they say best of 5 that is what they do. Last month an employee was sent home for a couple days for not doing as advertised.

Sort of off-topic, but that's actually a good technique to use for problem employees. At one place I used to work if an employee was at the last step of their progressive discipline, we'd send them home at the end of the day and tell them to take the next day off WITH PAY. I was skeptical at first but was amazed at how well this worked. One dude had been a constant pain in the butt. I finally counseled him and sent him home for his 1-day "vacation". I calmly explained that his 20+ years with the company means nothing to me if he refuses to adhere to the rules. I told him I fire people all the time and am treating him exactly the same as everyone else. He was pissed and stormed out. I figured, he'd last another week or so before I had to terminate him.

Much to my surprise, his day-long "break" consisted of getting grilled by his wife. Apparently, she had no idea he was being such a PITA at work and spend the whole day ripping him a new one. The dude came back a changed man. Never in my career had I seen such a turnaround.

[Vendetta]

Glad you refused it. I had an AK come in that the sights were so twisted on you couldnt see the front sight looking down them. The guys in the shop were amazed how bad it was. Atlantic sent a new one out before the shop even sent back the first and I got it two days later hand picked by the customer service rep on the phone. It was perfect. Hope you get a good one.

[bunkysdad]

I am glad to hear that Bud's is taking care of you. After all isn't that what everyone wants? Just to know they are doing business with someone who believes in good customer service and stands behind their reputation is very good for future business.
Force matched- on a refurbished rifle this is what you want. It is totally correct, and when all of the numbers "match" albeit from being forced at refurbishment that just means that the rifle for all practical purposes has not been screwed with from the time it was stored in the Communist dungeons to the time it arrived in your possession. Nothing more complicating than that. All this putting the numbers under a electron microscope to compare fonts to see (and hope) that you have acquired some super rare original matched rifle is kind of unnecessary to me on common crate refurbs.

[A J]

UPDATE: Just picked up my new mosin. It's a 1943 Ishevik - nothing spectacular on the surface but... it looks like it has never been issued. Very little cosmoline. The stock is the nicest I've ever seen. It's a deep red color with really beautiful wood grain. The receiver has some rough tooling marks from manufacturing and there's a bit of rust on the butt plate. Any damage on this rifle is only minor cosmetic and appears to be storage rash rather than combat. It's not counterbored. All serial numbers match and it hasn't been force matched. The barrel looks gunked up but I think that's just cosmoline. Will have to clean it and will update then. It came with a bayonet, oil can and all tools. There was no sling or tool pouch - no big deal as it wasn't supposed to have ANY accessories. The bayonet was hastily wrapped in some UPS mailers. The rest of the box was stuffed with them as well - apparently to keep the rifle from bouncing around. Nice touch.

I got lucky.

This mosin is so nice that (and I know you guys don't want to hear this) I may just clean it till she's spotless, never fire it, and hang it over the fireplace. Well... maybe I'll take her out just a few times!

[Vendetta]

Is it a Molot? Just curious.

[A J]

It says "PW Arms, Redmond, VA". Never heard of it.

[A J]

UPDATE: After disassembling it and cleaning it, there's a lot of minor pitting inside the barrel. There's also pitting throughout the exterior along with some very minor surface rust. Also, the outside of the barrel has been sanded down in places apparently during refurb. The rifling is extremely sharp. The bolt operates very smoothly - almost to the point of being a bit sloppy. So, in a nutshell, it appears to be a decent Mosin, but not a fantastic Mosin. If I had to guess, I'd say this rifle was briefly carried, rarely fired and stored away in less than ideal conditions causing much of the pitting.

[Sirex]

We needs pics ASAP to confirm this.

[catcracker]

From what I understand, forced matched can also have the old number ground off. Not just crossed out. If it has a refurbish mark on it, 98% of the time, it is forced matched. But, that being the case, that does not lessen the value. But a true matching has increased value, and is also somewhat rare. Chances are yours if forced matched.
How about some pictures?