1944 Izhevsk PU Sniper without scope number on barrel

[ZTacTech]

Hello everyone! I'm a new member and this is my first post.

I've got a growing collection of Mosin Nagants and my latest is a 1944 Izhevsk PU Sniper with a Yoshkar-Ola SVT scope serial number prefixed 43. It came from what I have thus far considered a fairly reputable source online and was imported by I.O. Inc. (Florida), but my concern is that there is no scope serial number above the wood line on the barrel and there does not appear that there ever was one. If it was scrubbed during arsenal refinish, they left no trace of the old serial and reblued it perfectly. I've attached a photo of the area in question.

What do you all think? Is that a red flag with respect to authenticity? Do you know of any legit Izhevsk PU Snipers that have this characteristic?

Thanks, and I'm glad to join!

[Darryl]

Read this:
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... 50#p308550

More photos of the entire rifle and mounts please.
Without more info, it is a guess. Some observations can be made, but most of it would only be guessing.

[ZTacTech]

Sorry for the delay and thanks for your patience. The top of the barrel has CC stamped on it. That's a new one for me.

I've got three more photos to share, but I'll have to do it in another post.

Thanks!

[ZTacTech]

A few more photos. Thanks again!

[sgtheindl]

Thats the second one I've seen today on here without the scope/mount number on the barrel. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20506

Might be another Molot trend that can't be explained. Sorry I can't give you more of an answer.

[ZTacTech]

Yeah, they're from the same batch at Classic. Any opinions on whether these rifles are legit? I know that the wood and metal have been together for a very long time based on the discovery of accumulated rust when I removed the stock. Maybe Izhevsk didn't stamp all the snipers with the scope number?

Anybody else have CC stamped on their barrels? Going from Cyrillic to Latin alphabets, CC is SS. Could that be a proof mark for a snaiperskaya?


EDIT: Interesting find at this post http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... 36&t=20184

@reifiedbeings's RGuns 1944 Izhevsk PU Sniper S/N PC6303 has a CC stamped exactly where my CC is stamped. My 1944 Izhevsk PU Sniper has S/N PC6315 which means these rifles came off the line not too far apart! The big difference here is that his has a scope number on the barrel and mine doesn't.

[Marcus]

The original scope serial number on the barrel was buffed off during refurb. This is not uncommon on Mosin snipers . Sometimes it's done so well you can't tell there was ever a number there without very close examination of the barrel, other times there will be traces of the number or a visible low/flat spot or change in contours.

[bocephus]

You can see the flat spot where the old serial was scrubbed. Some of the all mighty RGUNS come this way too.

[Darryl]

Without "better" photos and also photos of the import marks...this is my wild ass guess.

Only people to bring in sniper rifles into the US is CAI (Century very early), RGUNS, and (the latest rifles) from different importers but with Molot markings on the rifles.

So,

It is not a RGUNS.

It is not a CAI import

And it is not a Molot (unless the Molot marks are being hidden).

So, what could it be?

It could be a re-sniper made from an ex-sniper rifle. Take an ex-sniper and drill out the plugs (ruining the rifle) and re-tap and mount a real base, scope and mount.

But with that IO import mark on the barrel, it is either a re-sniper, or a Molot and the OP has not shown a Molot marking yet. I think maybe the latter?, but it is a guess without seeing Molot markings or indications.

Also it was brought to my attention that the address of IO import mark on the barrel is a more recent IO import mark, so that would either make it Molot (probably), or a re-sniper if no Molot marks.




I find this photo interesting. What is the "MADE..." in front of the bolt on the receiver? (Molot Marking?). I'd like to see more of the unshown markings on this rifle.

bolt1.jpg

This photos shows clearly the old scope number removed (which is typical). Just to the left of the "circle Y" and going back.
The old scope number can be partially seen just up and to the left of the 1944r (just above the wood line). Also just to the left of the "Circle Y" (just above the wood line).

barrel_top.jpg

[ZTacTech]

Thanks for your analysis. I'm attaching another picture showing more of the markings. It's all I have at the moment.

I have another PU Sniper which is from Molot, but this one is marked differently -- in different locations -- just like @Plastic Doc's rifle, which @sgtheindl pointed out in his above post. It has the diamond-ГИС, 12, and triangle-circle-T, which are familiar, but I don't recall it being marked on the rear left of the receiver with the circle-ВП (Vjatsko-Poljatski) logo as is the case with all of the Molot rifles I have.

Seeing that @reifiedbeings's RGuns PU Sniper is only 12 serials away and has the same CC stamp makes the rifle interesting (who knew they'd reunite in cyberspace 70 years later), but it does have condition issues (rust and pitting) not shown in my photos.

[Darryl]

Take the hand guard off and look at the top of the barrel.

You should find your Molot (or partners) marking. Like on the M44's. ?.... maybe.

[brodydog]

These rifles are imported by Royal Tiger/IO and are sold at both royal tiger and Classic. The rifles were referb by TULA and NOT Molot. My guess it the referb process did not restamp the scope number on the barrel. These are very nice condition rifles as I just got in 5 Tula rifles from Royal Tiger and they to dont have the scope number on the barrel. The scope, scope mount and rifle are legit snipers I do know that. All of my Tula have the CH mark. I posted a few pic in of mine on here also.

[ffeng31]

My R'Guns is the same way . The original scope number was scrubbed and a new number was not applied .

[stractor101]

My I.O Sniper has a depression where the original scope serial was, so it was scrubbed