"Collectors Forum" - All Mosin Nagant are discussed here. Also the Russian and "Finnish capture" SVT38 and SVT40. This is an excellent place for new Mosin owners to ask questions. We have some of the best experts here looking forward to your questions. If you post a Mosin sniper rifle here, we may or may not move it to the sniper forum.
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I recently got bit by the Mosin bug picked up my first Finnish captured M91! It's a 1925 dated Tula! I got it from a buddy who bought it last July. When he got it, it was wrapped in camo duct tape and had some nasty green paint on the stock . I can't believe how some people can butcher these beautiful rifles! My buddy got rid of the tape and removed the paint from the stock by using a little mineral spirits. Nothing else was done to it. Luckily the finish was still intact underneath that ugly green paint. I took it apart and can still see some of the paint under the barrel. Anyway, on to the rifle itself! The tang and barrel are both 1925 dated, and the majority of the parts are Tula hammer marked. There are a few pre-1928 Izhevsk parts in the mix as well. Another interesting thing I noticed is that the bolt is from a Remington! Unfortunately the barrel is counterbored, and it's missing the sling swivels, cleaning rod, and hand guard. Any idea where I can track down these missing parts, and is there anything to do to further preserve the finish on the stock? Also, what would an approximate value on this rifle? I am new to Mosin collecting, so I really don't know much about them. Thanks!
Ooh! You got a nice one. I think it is great that you were able to put it back into the original wood without damaging the stock. The parts you mentioned are easy to find except for the hand guard. You might have to cough up as much as a hundred bucks if you get lucky and find one at all. As for the value that is a bit more difficult. 200.00 would be considered a amazing deal, while 350-400 might seem like a over the top price to many folks. So somewhere in the middle. Now I am no expert, but I have been at this awhile and I am of the opinion that the only time a counter bore would be out of place would be on a as-new rifle or unissued rifle. These are heavily used rifles so a counter bore is not only a normal thing, it is often a good thing and improves accuracy. I have to ask because this is something that I have been wondering about lately. You say you are new to Mosins, and that is great. I want to know the thought you have when you say something like "unfortunately it has been counter bored". A lot of new guys say this and I got to start asking why. Welcome to the forum. Your rifle is a great piece of history.
Thanks for the replies, guys! Bunkysdad, I'm not sure what made me think counter bores were bad. I guess it came from looking st sites like Classic and JG that state "some may be counter bored, but they will still be good shooters", or something similar. I also overhear a lot of "experts" who come into my local gun shop, lol. Thanks again!
A counterbore is a good thing. It probably restored some accuracy, plus makes a great way to negotiate a lower price when you're buying one from an uninformed seller.
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I look at them a little differently than some folks. Some like a rifle to be in as close to pristine condition as possible, but I look at a counter bore more like a stock repair. I love stock repairs. I am talking about the patches and repairs that you often see that were done by the armorors to keep these rifles in the field or at the ready for battle. It goes more to the history of the rifle. Since we know it was a important part of their history, it is cool when we see them and get to own them.
Russian M91's from the 1920's can be rather difficult to find. It's missing some parts, but if you put it all back together I'd think $350-$400 on an auction site is a real possibility - depending on how the stock and bore look of course. It's a collectable year at any rate.
The commerce which maybe carried on with the people inhabiting the line you will pursue renders a knowledge of these people important ~Thomas Jefferson~ (to- Lewis and Clark)
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Thanks again for the replies! I've done a little research, and it seems that 1925 is a hard to find year for these rifles. In the past couple of months I have picked up 6 or 7 Mosins, and this one is by far the best shooter! I have quickly fallen in love with it, lol. What makes a 1925 Tula more desirable than many others?
Any M1891 from the commie years is a hard to find item. Low production, and the attrition of time and wars make it so. It's not that it is a 1925 Tula that makes it desirable in of itself. people like the Tula markings from the 20's of course, but the fact that it is a M1891 from that era is what makes it the most desirable.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Ah, ok. That makes sense. I was excited to get this one. I traded a DOT 1944 Mauser for this M91 and a post war DOT 1945 Mauser. Surprisingly, the bore is in excellent condition! She's definitely seen a lot of action in her life. I'm sure there are some stories behind every dent and ding in the stock!
Thats a really nice find. You just dont see the '20s for sale locally.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
-George Washington
Just so you know, here is what it probably looked like before the counter bore-it could have been worse. Pick your poison... Note, relatively good rifling behind this is why they counterbored to salvage barrels. Counterbore does nothing to hinder accuracy. So, if you had the choice which bore would you choose? I know, trick question...
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That's a tricky question! Aesthetically I would obviously choose a non-counter bored rifle. On the other hand, for accuracy sake, I would choose a counter bore.
Congratulations on finding such an amazing rifle! I have a special place in my collection for 1920's Finnish captured M91's because they are definite Winter/Continuation War captures. It's interesting to think that the Soviets were still using a model that they themselves had begun to replace over a decade before with first the dragoon and then the M91/30. The Soviets kept the M91 in production at Tula, albeit low scale, until 1926. Here is some data from my serial number database
1919- # of examples observed- 17
Highest serial: 246996
1920- # of examples observed- 6
Highest serial: 68807
1921- # of examples observed- 1
Highest serial: 114213
1922- # of examples observed- 9
Highest serial: 118946
1923- # of examples observed- 4
Highest serial: 69200
1924- # of examples observed- 7
Highest serial: 82600
1925- # of examples observed- 5
Highest serial: 7580
1926- # of examples observed- 3
Highest serial: 3157
As you can see, the production stayed steady for a while, and then dropped off the cliff after 1924. Thank you for posting. Yours is just the 5th example I've seen and the highest serial from 1925. Interestingly, all 1925 and 1926 examples are Finnish captured.
Author of The Finnish Mosin-Nagant: Three Line Rifle to Ukko Pekka (For sale below) The Finnish Mosin-Nagant
. I can't believe how some people can butcher these beautiful rifles! My buddy got rid of the tape and removed the paint from the stock by using a little mineral spirits. Nothing else was done to it. Luckily the finish was still intact underneath that ugly green paint. I took it apart and can still see some of the paint under the barrel. Anyway, on to the rifle itself! The tang and barrel are both 1925 dated, and the majority of the parts are Tula hammer marked. There are a few pre-1928 Izhevsk parts in the mix as well. Another interesting thing I noticed is that the bolt is from a Remington! Unfortunately the barrel is counterbored, and it's missing the sling swivels, cleaning rod, and hand guard. Any idea where I can track down these missing parts, and is there anything to do to further preserve the finish on the stock? Also, what would an approximate value on this rifle? I am new to Mosin collecting, so I really don't know much about them. Thanks!
