Question about historical authenticity on swapping stocks

[walnut red]

You'll also find that this is a quirk of Mosin collectors. Collectors of other military firearms, especially US military firearms, spend a lot of time and money swapping arts to get their arsenal refurbished Garand or 1911A1 back to the parts it originally left the factory with.

[Knuckledragger]

You'll also find that this is a quirk of Mosin collectors. Collectors of other military firearms, especially US military firearms, spend a lot of time and money swapping arts to get their arsenal refurbished Garand or 1911A1 back to the parts it originally left the factory with.

I actually consider that a quirk of US service rifle collectors-not collectors of Mosins (or other country's rifles). The US collectors are the only ones that seek out to sterilize the history of the firearm by changing out the parts and sanding/refinishing stocks.
Crooks and bubbas will switch around pieces from any country's service rifles to make a buck. US service rifle collectors are the only one I know that do this and consider it, "better".

I consider the US collectors to be the Mitchell's Mausers of the collector world. YMMV-especially if your guilty of it

[walnut red]

I just spent too much time in an ordnance shop cleaning various US military firearms to think there is anything sacred about what parts ended up on a firearm when we were finished. It was nothing to strip down a dozen M2 Brownings, throw everything in a parts washer, then reassemble them grabbing the first appropriate part that came to hand. Based on both the refurbs and non refurbs I've seen I can't see that the Russian, Ukrainian or whoever ordnance shops did any different. I did and do have a soft spot for 1911A1a so at least tried to match them up as they were reassembled. I haven't swapped parts on my refurbs but that is more because matching parts is not that important to me. They are what they are and if I don't like a particular collection of parts I don't buy the rifle in the first place.

[Junk Yard Dog]

You'll also find that this is a quirk of Mosin collectors. Collectors of other military firearms, especially US military firearms, spend a lot of time and money swapping arts to get their arsenal refurbished Garand or 1911A1 back to the parts it originally left the factory with.

I actually consider that a quirk of US service rifle collectors-not collectors of Mosins (or other country's rifles). The US collectors are the only ones that seek out to sterilize the history of the firearm by changing out the parts and sanding/refinishing stocks.
Crooks and bubbas will switch around pieces from any country's service rifles to make a buck. US service rifle collectors are the only one I know that do this and consider it, "better".

I consider the US collectors to be the Mitchell's Mausers of the collector world. YMMV-especially if your guilty of it

I am a US milsurp collector, 50&45/70 Springfields, Krags, M1903's, Us 1917's, Garands, M1 Carbines, M1903-A3's, trench guns, and I have never changed a single part on any of them to make them "match". This is something I have seen with Garand collectors more so that any other. The 1903's and others didn't have the "drawing" numbers that Garand parts have, and there were fewer manufacturers of the older rifles. I used to see that parts matching idiocy at every gun show back in the day.

[Knuckledragger]

@ walnut red - I totally agree with you. The Russians just grabbed whatever was the closest part in the pile for each of the refurbs in their, "make work" programs. But, for the purists, that is still considered latest military configuration.

@JYD - I would think nothing less from you, sir. But, the practice of changing out parts and steaming out dents/refinishing stocks is still rampant among the Garand and carbine collectors. This is why I only purchase rifles from the CMP that still have the certificate -and haven't been messed with.

[Cool Old Guns]

Just something to think about. If you save the money from the purchase of 2 refurbs, you can buy 1 better rifle. I know the temptation to buy quantity is always there, but in my collection I try more for quality.

Well said...I just passed up a good deal on a 1942 Tula Ex-Sniper from a friend for $140 in nice shape. After 5 common MN I think it's time to get something a little different and use that $140 towards it. I want a sniper rifle, a finnish MN and a Russian SKS. For me it's going to be a challenge to come up with the extra money and I know I'll pay full price for them when the time comes. After thinking about it, my first purchase will be a Finnish MN. A "must have" rifle from reading this forum.
As far as the question about the stocks, I'm glad it was asked because I thought about trading stocks with a friend but never did. I also have a extra stock another friend gave me because of the modifications to his MN that I could have switched around also. So all my guns will stay as purchased.

[millman]

Just something to think about. If you save the money from the purchase of 2 refurbs, you can buy 1 better rifle. I know the temptation to buy quantity is always there, but in my collection I try more for quality.

Well said...I just passed up a good deal on a 1942 Tula Ex-Sniper from a friend for $140 in nice shape. After 5 common MN I think it's time to get something a little different and use that $140 towards it. I want a sniper rifle, a finnish MN and a Russian SKS. For me it's going to be a challenge to come up with the extra money and I know I'll pay full price for them when the time comes. After thinking about it, my first purchase will be a Finnish MN. A "must have" rifle from reading this forum.
As far as the question about the stocks, I'm glad it was asked because I thought about trading stocks with a friend but never did. I also have a extra stock another friend gave me because of the modifications to his MN that I could have switched around also. So all my guns will stay as purchased.

You may not have to pay full price. Just study up on Mosins and keep our eyes open. Ask Jumperwire or a few other of the thieves around here about their best deals. It happens if you just keep looking.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Just something to think about. If you save the money from the purchase of 2 refurbs, you can buy 1 better rifle. I know the temptation to buy quantity is always there, but in my collection I try more for quality.

Well said...I just passed up a good deal on a 1942 Tula Ex-Sniper from a friend for $140 in nice shape. After 5 common MN I think it's time to get something a little different and use that $140 towards it. I want a sniper rifle, a finnish MN and a Russian SKS. For me it's going to be a challenge to come up with the extra money and I know I'll pay full price for them when the time comes. After thinking about it, my first purchase will be a Finnish MN. A "must have" rifle from reading this forum.
As far as the question about the stocks, I'm glad it was asked because I thought about trading stocks with a friend but never did. I also have a extra stock another friend gave me because of the modifications to his MN that I could have switched around also. So all my guns will stay as purchased.

Sniper rifle is easy, acquiring the skills of a trained operator so you can use such a weapon to greatest effect is much harder. I have a nice Savage 110 .30-06, polymer stock with a pillared, and bedded action, full floating ported barrel, Nikon scope that can read a newspaper from orbit, Harris bipod. It can hit far less than 1MOA at 100 yards with some very nice ammo I have just for it, unfortunately my own skills will never let this rifle shoot to it's full potential. It can outshoot any PU sniper I have ever seen, and will outshoot most antique sniping rigs that have wear and age on them, all told such a rig will run around $1200 with all the extras and custom work, maybe a little more today. PU's are an interesting piece of history, but for actual shooting I hate the damn things, the Savage is a middle priced piece of western technology, there are other sporting rifles that are far more expensive, but it gets the same job done at half the cost. Shooting that Savage compared to the PU is like driving a '69 hemi roadrunner compared to a 1986 Yugo. When I absolutely, positively, must hit the target, I bring out the Savage

[uberjon]

Well with that theory a mosin would never be brought out lol. I shoot mosins because they are fun and accurate enough...but I have no illusions that they are the most accurate rifles out there.

[bunkysdad]

Right. Me too. Shoot for fun. If I m shooting, I am having fun.

[Cool Old Guns]

Junk Yard Dog, I have no need for a "real" gun like a Savage with all the goodies, ect. I don't hunt like most of the gun owners I know and at 49 I don't think I'm going to start now. Just started into guns (1.5 Years) and I'm a collector at heart so I would be very happy to have a Sniper MN just for the cool factor and its all I would need to shoot paper. I like OLD

[Junk Yard Dog]

Junk Yard Dog, I have no need for a "real" gun like a Savage with all the goodies, ect. I don't hunt like most of the gun owners I know and at 49 I don't think I'm going to start now. Just started into guns (1.5 Years) and I'm a collector at heart so I would be very happy to have a Sniper MN just for the cool factor and its all I would need to shoot paper. I like OLD

Who said anything about hunting? That savage has never been pointed at animals, the shot I am talking about is when the pistol shooter friends of mine start making noise about seeing if the "old man" with the coke bottle thick glasses can hit anything past his own nose on the rifle range. That's when the Savage comes out to play The rifle was custom built by a retired member of the NYPD's ESU , he was a highly trained marksman trained by the military and the police before he passed. His son had little use for the rifle, and sold it cheap, don't you just love guys like that I have been a milsurp collector for nearly 40 years, old describes pretty much everything I own, even the Savage is over 20 years old now. I shoot stuff so old I have to make the cartridges myself.

[zeebill]

I find many German collectors like to mix and match to get a weapon all matching too. That is why I have minimal amount of US and German weapons. I just tried to find rifles in good condition with maybe a few non-matching parts to kind of ensure they were honest and not assembled by someone. There are certain people you just find out about from other collectors who switch things around freely. One thing I have noticed is they always have all matching and expensive guns so I rarely look twice at their wares because that makes me very nervous about what I would be buying from them. I will freely replace broken or unsafe parts but that is about it. If I trade around unsafe or broken trigger parts I try to stay with the same arsenal I took out regardless of what the arsenal of the rifle may be. It gets what I took out for safety in kind too. I bought a lot of rifles off a collector years ago and they all had M39 triggers in them and when questioned he told me he replaced all triggers with M39 parts. I have not bought anything from him since and in fact have lost track of him completely. The worst case of suspected humping I have ever seen was a collector who had always matching rifles! Then another collector on the side told me you know what all his fonts for numbers are different did you ever notice that? I could not believe I had never noticed that and had bought a couple of rifles off him. Duh!!! You live and you are supposed to learn but sometimes we can't see the trees for the forest. Bill

[Junk Yard Dog]

Always examine the font's Bill, the Germans used some that were more ornate than found on a Mosin. These old fashioned stamps are more expensive to make, and harder to find today, but by WW2 on the K98k they were pretty basic. Some rifles there is just not enough profit incentive to bother restamping parts as this tends to require refinishing as well because of a ground off old number, and then aging. Profit is there on a K98k from one of the harder to find makers, or similar higher end stuff, but not for instance a Mosin 91/30. With US rifles it's just parts swapping to get a manufacturers stamp, or drawing number that matches the receiver, and barrel. Early on US rifles were only made at Springfield Armory, and later Rock Island in the cartridge Springfield era, the real fun starts with post WW2 Garands, and the M1 carbines. Winchester and Springfield making Garands during WW2, with H&R, and IHC starting during Korea, that's four makers parts to pick from. The M1 carbine was made by 10 company's who were in turn supplied by numerous sub contractors. A man could go insane trying to parts match them, especially considering at certain times the primary sub contractors would supply parts to each other to start, or maintain production. You have to be an encyclopedia of carbine knowledge to try and get that right. All of my M1 Garands have some degree of mixed parts as is normal, all of them fought two wars, went through numerous rebuilds as is normal for US service rifles. Only the IHC is correct as it should be, but when I bought it I was told it wasn't "matching" because of the H&R bolt. The seller didn't know that IHC had startup problems that required H&R to supply some bolts, so the bolt is correct. My H&R is a close second, I think there are one or two Springfield parts in the trigger group, who care, I never went for that matching US parts shit, that's not how US service rifles of the WW2 era were built. The M1903's are easier, at most you might find a stray Remington part, but as Rock Island didn't produce in the same numbers as Springfield, RIA parts in a SA rifle are pretty rare. I have four original as issued with all original parts '03's. Two are Great War bringhomes, they weren't in service long enough to be rebuilt, one is a Remington 1903, many of these later '03's just didn't get issued , or issued enough to need refurb, and the last is a A3, of course both could have seen parts replacement and the parts just happened to be Remington made. Forget about the carbines, only the Underwood bringhome with the original flip sight seems to be all "correct", the rest are a mix of this and that.