Question about historical authenticity on swapping stocks

[uberjon]

I'm hoping this topic is ok since I'm not talking about modifying anything but delete if it's not ok.

I have several pre-war stocks and they are both on wartime guns. I also have many post-war stocks on pre-war guns. Is there anything historically wrong about switching stocks? It just seems to make a whole lot more sense and historically accurate to do so and reunite with the type of stock that was originally on it. I'd love to hear some opinions on this as I have a 1916 hex and a 1924 hex that are in incorrect stocks and I own at least 2 pre-war ones.

[Lee-online]

Humping is frowned upon. If you want an all correct rifle, buy a rifle in its original format.

[millman]

They are correct in the stocks they received during the refurb process. Any switching you will do is called "Humping" and is frowned upon here.

[uberjon]

Interesting. Ok fair enough. I understand that thought process and it makes sense. Now my curiousity is going to kill me if I don't ask how it got the term humping lol?

[bunkysdad]

The reason it is frowned upon is because it is a refurb, and anyone familiar with refurbs knows that it is correct as is. That is the problem for the future as I see it. As we get away from the refurbs straight out of the crates, and they change ownership a time or two, it harms the integrity of the whole idea of collecting "correct" rifles. If I buy a rifle that has every piece matching and correct, but is a refurb, and I paid extra because I was told it was authentic, was I lucky to find it or was I lied to? Nobody may know. If you switched all of your stocks around to be mated to the best match, your collection would go from Perhaps 6 rifles that didn't seem correct although they were, to 6 rifles that appeared correct but were humped. If you told nobody, then sold them, you might be a little richer, or maybe not. No matter what the history would be falsified on a half dozen rifles and at least one person would know. Believe me when I say that it is happening all the time. And that is a good reason to start looking beyond refurbs if you want to collect Mosins seriously. Having a couple dozen refurbs is common, and nothing wrong with that. If you collect all the years and arsenals you will have a lot more than that.
As a matter of fact non-refurb rifles, sniper rifles, let me say that last one again, SNIPER RIFLES, get humped a lot. Rare coins get humped (I could tell you a real story), old cars get humped, etc....... that is why I have stopped buying everything in town, because I ain't jumping on the Top Dollar Bandwagon to get another rifle I don't have room for. Oh man, it's Sunday and I started preaching! Ok, I'll get back to my recording of the Walking Dead.

[uberjon]

I would love to be able to collect non-refurbs but unless I get lucky and find one that's usually not an option for me as they are out of my price range. I have two kids and I'm a teacher so the money isn't flowing in for me to buy more expensive guns so I satisfy my love of guns and history by buying a lot of refurb mosins. I know they aren't as desirable and are never going to be worth a fortune (I'm sure they'll increase some but nowhere near other historical guns), but I get to get a little piece of history for between 100 and 200 bucks and I find it just as satisfying as collecting more expensive guns. I love my 1916 refurbed izhevsk 9130 on 1897 receiver like it's a 2000 dollar gun even though I'd probably be lucky to get 300 on it max I'm sure.

[Lee-online]

Pay the $30 to get you C&R if you don't yet have it. That opens all kinds of options and makes getting a Mosin much easier when you see one online.

Non refurbs can and do sell for the same price as refurbs. You just have to find them, that's the fun part. Drive to all the local gun shops and see what they have. Keeps notes of the type of rifles they carry so in the future you can stop more frequently at the one who usually have the best selection of surplus. Keep a reference book in your car so if you find a rifle you are unsure of, you can go outside and check your book and make a educated buy.

[bunkysdad]

It sounds like you are doing great John. And you are asking great questions. Best of all you are enjoying yourself collecting. I can't afford the expensive ones either. Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time is good enough. I have a Finned all original matching 91/30 Tula that I found for 100.00, and my m44 was 100.00, but my luckiest find was a New England Westinghouse M91 for 120.00! I'd rather be lucky than good! Who said that........oh yeah, Zeebill!

[uberjon]

I am going to get a cr soon. I know non-refurbs can be had if you're lucky for the same. I do have 2 out of my 14 mosins as non-refurbs (polish m44 and suspected and claimed but unproveable 1960 t53 bringback). The only gun I paid more than 180 for is my refurb pu sniper. I do check pawn shops and gun shows but I've only ever seen one mosin at any pawn shop period and one non-refurbed mosin at a gun show (it was a sako 1944 m39 yesterday for 349 which I nearly pulled the trigger on since I knew it was a good price but was missing a barrel band and stock was both refinished AND had some ugly dings despite the refinishing so I passed. That and I had already bought 2 guns at the show.

[bunkysdad]

I hear ya. Some guys seem to do ok at pawn shops but not me. I did see a totally abused m44 once for 425 if I remember correctly. I nearly fainted

[neal45]

I've been looking at pawn and gun shops for about 4 years and agree, you rarely find a great deal. But I did find a 1927 M27 that needed some stock work (varnished) for $99, and a beautiful Tikka M91/30 with Finn stock, raised front sight and more for $125. You just have to be persistent and patient. I'm still looking because I hope to find another great deal and I like to browse the guns anyway.

[qz2026]

From time to time non-refurbs show up. It is rare to find one that is matching and original, however. But, that being said, there are a good number of Mosin 91/30's that were imported out of the Balkans, primarily Romania, that are very nice if you like the been there done that look and the metal worn down to almost white and non matching. These rifles were refurbed outside of Russia and only updated so they would function. Stocks are in original condition and not dolled up with shellac. These rifles can be had for significantly less than the refurbs are selling for. To find an original matching rifle would be a stroke of luck and hopefully the seller wouldn't know what he has other than an old rifle.

Restocking refurbished rifles ruins the collectability of the rifle. The Russians in general did a pretty good job in their process. They didn't care about putting a rifle in the correct stock or the correct parts for the rifle's arsenal. They did, however, match the rifle to the stock functionally and force match the components. There are lots of refubs that are in the "correct" stock. You just have to be patient and wait for them to show up.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Unless a stock is in splintered pieces past gluing, or the worms ate at least 50% of it I do not consider changing a stock that is on the rifle. Bubba action would be reason number three to change. When you mess with a stock you run the near certainty of altering the rifles point of impact on the target. Stocks are not just attached, they are fitted to each action to maximize accuracy. The people who did this for the most part were pretty good at it, repetition x1,000,000 will do that, I would not mess with their work without very good reason.

[zeebill]

It sounds like you are doing great John. And you are asking great questions. Best of all you are enjoying yourself collecting. I can't afford the expensive ones either. Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time is good enough. I have a Finned all original matching 91/30 Tula that I found for 100.00, and my m44 was 100.00, but my luckiest find was a New England Westinghouse M91 for 120.00! I'd rather be lucky than good! Who said that........oh yeah, Zeebill!

Dang straight I said that! I say it often too because it is the truth! All those years of racing and I was marginal as a driver but I was always competitive and more importantly LUCKY! Luck is more than likely why I am still alive today. As I look back at on some of the things I got through, like looking up when driving an open wheeled car and seeing the bottom of your friends car looming over you as you sit in an open cockpit and thinking this is going to hurt. Some how he fell off my roll bar and to the rear never touching me or other things like my wheels which could have spelled disaster and would have spelled disaster for both of us. I still wear one tee shirt I have proudly from time to time and it says "The older I get the faster I was" I hate to admit it but it is oh so true!

Luck puts you in a spot and that is what makes you a success in both life and collecting too. One of the things I have learned over the years is I will be very satisfied to find and buy one good valuable rifle a year versus 20 less valuable ones. I am on a retired mans income of less than $3000 a month and have all the bills everyone else has plus I am older and falling apart at times it seems so what you make and what you have as responsibilities are no excuses in my book for not collecting quality pieces. I just bought a nice Winchester US model 1917 with a less than 1 rating on the muzzle erosion with a 11/18 barrel. Needless to say that is a sizable investment but I used tax money and two nice trades to pay for it and have a nest egg left. You have no excuse not to do what I just did and for sure it is not because I am at all smart. I keep household money separate and only touch it for a temporary loan at times and if anybody has seen me lately I do not look like I miss any meals.

Your collection may not be large now but if you put 20 years into buying nice pieces you will have a nest egg that can be sold off to send the kids to college or make your retirement fun. When I was you I was not smart enough to see that and it took many years to get me to see that and Dam I am glad I finally came around to that way of thinking. Chose your path as you may but what your reap someday will be what you sowed along the way. Example in point I have a buddy who is sending his kid to Georgetown on selling of his collection which is many years old and worth quite a bit. This is also his retirement fund too and think of all the fun he has collecting it over the years. Bill

[jones0430]

Let me put collecting firearms into perspective. As we are doing, it is called collecting, but we are basically dilettantes.

A true collector has something like consecutive serial numbered flintlock pistols issued to cavalry in the Army of Gustavus Adolphus, during the 30 Years War.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Let me put collecting firearms into perspective. As we are doing, it is called collecting, but we are basically dilettantes.

A true collector has something like consecutive serial numbered flintlock pistols issued to cavalry in the Army of Gustavus Adolphus, during the 30 Years War.

Speak for yourself, I have blown well over a hundred grand in the last 30+ years at this, your collection is whatever you want it to be. Some people collect only new in the box never fired, cylinder never rotated, Colt revolvers, another collects type 53 carbines the rougher the better, both are collectors, just their focus differs.

[redeuce]

I would love to be able to collect non-refurbs but unless I get lucky and find one that's usually not an option for me as they are out of my price range. I have two kids and I'm a teacher so the money isn't flowing in for me to buy more expensive guns so I satisfy my love of guns and history by buying a lot of refurb mosins. I know they aren't as desirable and are never going to be worth a fortune (I'm sure they'll increase some but nowhere near other historical guns), but I get to get a little piece of history for between 100 and 200 bucks and I find it just as satisfying as collecting more expensive guns. I love my 1916 refurbed izhevsk 9130 on 1897 receiver like it's a 2000 dollar gun even though I'd probably be lucky to get 300 on it max I'm sure.

Just something to think about. If you save the money from the purchase of 2 refurbs, you can buy 1 better rifle. I know the temptation to buy quantity is always there, but in my collection I try more for quality.

[djbuck1]

Let me put collecting firearms into perspective. As we are doing, it is called collecting, but we are basically dilettantes.

A true collector has something like consecutive serial numbered flintlock pistols issued to cavalry in the Army of Gustavus Adolphus, during the 30 Years War.

Dilettante: a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge.

I think you need better word choice.

Collector: a person who collects things of a specified type, professionally or as a hobby.

[uberjon]

I would love to be able to collect non-refurbs but unless I get lucky and find one that's usually not an option for me as they are out of my price range. I have two kids and I'm a teacher so the money isn't flowing in for me to buy more expensive guns so I satisfy my love of guns and history b. The buying a lot of refurb mosins. I know they aren't as desirable and are never going to be worth a fortune (I'm sure they'll increase some but nowhere near other historical guns), but I get to get a little piece of history for between 100 and 200 bucks and I find it just as satisfying as collecting more expensive guns. I love my 1916 refurbed izhevsk 9130 on 1897 receiver like it's a 2000 dollar gun even though I'd probably be lucky to get 300 on it max I'm sure.

Just something to think about. If you save the money from the purchase of 2 refurbs, you can buy 1 better rifle. I know the temptation to buy quantity is always there, but in my collection I try more for quality.

Every one of my rifles is very different with the exception that I have a 41 and 42 izhevsk and a 34 and 35 tula. i have filled out a decent collection that makes me happy. By nicer rifle you mean nicer mosins? I plain old dont see many except for the one finn ive seen. I like to go to the cabelas gun rack digging for gold. The enjoyment of finding a needle in a haystack is half the fun of collecting for me. I've gotten a 1916 Izhevsk on 1897 receiver, 1924 Izhevsk on 1914 receiver, 1927 tula and 1927 Izhevsk, 1934 tula, 1943 tula ex sniper, all at cabelas from the rack. I got a 1944 tula m38, 1946 Izhevsk m44, and an extra m44 stock for 260 total from a private sale, I got a polish m44 non refurb from a gun show for 140, I got a 41 Izhevsk, 35 tula, 43 nagant revolver, 50 rounds nagant ammo, 450 rounds bulgarian heavy bally in ammo can, extra accessory pouches, all for 435 from same guy as carbines, and a 1960 t53 non refurb for 100. I also decided to get a pu sniper from jg for 600 while they were still around. I don't specifically collect refurbs they are just so abundant so 12 of my 14 are them. I've gotten some pretty sweet deals along the way though.

[clayshooter2]

Nothing wrong with collecting refurbs Jon. I have a thing for M91's and pre Soviet Mosins, so my refurb purchases have been few compared to some guys on the forums; but I do make sure I check out every single refurb 91/30 I ever see up for sale. I'm still waiting for the day I find one with a KA3 stamp on the barrel.