Guilty conscience.. Might have sentenced a Mosin

[Ratgeyser]

*nods* And truth be told, my best shooters are both wartimers. I have a 43 frankenrifle (lineout serials on everything) from Izhevsk and a 43 Tula that was busted up and remarried to a '34 Tula receiver during or before getting a completely new stock in the refurbishing era. Frankie was my very first Mosin, and I think it was you, JYD, who taught me the trick of fixing "sticky bolt syndrome" with a shotgun bore brush and a power drill. I personally prefer the beautifully-crafted and well-preserved older Mosins, but I agree that a major factor in these rifles is the stories they could tell. The 43 Tula in particular, I can tell was remarried later, because the barrel and receiver were mismatched by a few degrees (either a machining defect, or a recut to take up a field-gapped headspace), and there are grind marks by the dovetail where the now-tilted front sight was relocated to the new "top" of the barrel, and the extractor groove inside the breech is longer where they had to extend it so the extractor wouldn't slam into the old top of the barrel. Knowing that the rifle probably started its life as parts in downtown Moscow, then got assembled somewhere in the Urals after Tula bugged out, only to be shot apart and mated to a new receiver... is mind-boggling to me. But then I take it to the range and it shoot groups a full 2-4 MOA tighter than any other Mosin I own, and I see why Ivan wanted that rifle resurrected. And that's ignoring the story of the rifle that went the '34 receiver came from, other than to say that it has a long, smooth, 4lb trigger pull with a crisp break, and I see why Ivan used THAT part on THAT rifle. I'm not a very good shot, so I get about 4-6" groups at 50m from a bench with Lugansk milsurp ammo (8-12 MOA), but with that rifle I can consistently shoot 2" groups at 50m--about 4 MOA if my math is right.

And then I note that it shoots those groups a full meter high at 100m and I can almost hear Ivan swear блин! and toss the rifle on the reject pile. Or perhaps shipping it to the front with a note that says "aim for crotch to shoot in head"....

[m1guy]

I hate that fact that 54R is not popular for modern sporting rifles. I think a lot of the Bubba jobs stem from that. I think the reasonable ammo price is one factor that really makes some of these Bubbas' eyes light up when it comes to modifying a Mosin. You can talk some sense into a lot of them about how by the time they buy the gun, buy the stock, the scope and spend the time butchering it, they might as well get a modern bolt action for the same money. But, playing around buying commercial .270 or something is a lot less attractive than cheap surplus ammo. If a lot of modern guns were offered in 54R, with a lot of used ones floating around, I think don't think Mosins would be as attractive to the Bubbas.

[Ratgeyser]

I hate that fact that 54R is not popular for modern sporting rifles. I think a lot of the Bubba jobs stem from that.

This rings true for me: I just found out about the existence of the PSL-54C, a 10rd semiauto marksman carbine that shoots 54R. I can't wait to get my hands on one. Supposedly it will shoot 1-2" groups at 100m. This makes me giddy enough to be willing to shell out the $1000-1200 that they're going for as soon as I have my pennies saved up. And yeah, the entire reason I want it is because the ammo for it is so doggone cheap.

Another reason is that reloading doesn't make a lot of sense with 54R yet. With surplus ammo at $0.21/rd and "no DIY" reloading weighing in around $0.25-$0.50/rd (no-DIY meaning you buy bullets and brass that gives out after 10-20 shots), you have to decide if you want to reload as a hobby, not to save money. I have a friend who is CRAZY into reloading who swears he can get the cost down to $0.15/rd by casting his own bullets out of "found lead" and being very careful with not overworking the brass, and he's looking into adapting a .308 collet die which would give him 100-200 reloads before the brass gave out instead of 10. That would take the price down to about a nickel--cheaper than .22lr before the ammo crisis! THAT would get my attention, but until then, yeah, where else can you flip .30cal bullets downrange for under a buck?

If Bubba plans on putting a thousand rounds downrange, 54R looks to be $700 cheaper, which really starts to add up. Even if Bubba in reality is only going to shoot a couple dozen rounds with it, that $700 sure looks convincing.

[WeldonHunter]

Comment on how you can understand the need for scoping it given his advancing age and diminishing eyesight, how a lot of older men scope their rifles to keep up with the younger shooters. Being that he is Russian you might also remind him that this rifle was used by the meanest, toughest, badass, group of Russians to ever march across Russia, and how they wiped out the Nazi's with that rifle. How they considered the use of scopes, and the entire concept of sporting rifles to be something reserved for Nancy Boys, and limp wrist types in general, a real mans rifle is a weapon of war such as the 91/30 as issued.

Sounds like you have practice with these types of responses! I like this one.

LMAO!! This is the accepted answer!

[Chiroptile]

Many good points being brought up here.. I think I'm going to keep sending him links to Savages for now. Keep the Mosin off the table.. or maybe just keep my mouth shut altogether. Don't want to encourage him anymore.

[Junk Yard Dog]

This is the USA, our preferred .30 cartridge for everything has been the .30-06 since 1906. The reason for this is that not only is it our own, but millions of men were exposed to it during military service, when they came home they went with what they knew. Second would be the 8mm Mauser, again, so many servicemen were exposed to it and brought home rifles that fired it. Rimmed rounds just never took on the same wild popularity here in sporting rifles, much like the 6.5's of the Japanese and Italians never took hold either. Later on you had a rash of 7.62x51mm sporters in the 60's and 70's as guys who used that round during the late 1950's and 60's brought the memory of it back home and wanted sporters that fired it. The Mosin was used by US troops during and shortly after the great war, but it was never popular with them.

[grgmini]

The kid coworker that I shoot with just bought a 1943 Tula. I went with him to pick it up today (along with another coworker and a 1938 Izhevsk) and he's been talking about playing Bubba with it. I've been trying to smack some sense into him without much luck, however, when he asked his FFL about mounting a scope, the guy started ranting about how much he hates guys bringing him Russians made from recycled ball bearings, asking him to drill and tap the receiver. He's broken too many taps and won't be responsible for destroying one. I had to hold my laughter. I hope he can be convinced to keep it original

[Teleoceras]

Geeze this reminds me of when I was picking up my M91 Dragoon at my FFL. Another fellow with his son looked at her and was talking about that I should sand her and scope her,etc. etc. I told him very politely no, she would not be touched except for some oiling and a lot of TLC.

I'll never forget his reply, "Why not? It's just a cheap Russian rifle!"

Sufficed to say, I gave that gentleman and his son a history lesson of the M91 Dragoon, her history of being captured by the Finnish, and the rarity of the Dragoons still in their original condition. At least he admitted afterwards that he didn't know that there were rare variants of the Mosin Nagant.

Education really is the key in my opinion to preventing bubbafication.

[Rongo]

Geeze this reminds me of when I was picking up my M91 Dragoon at my FFL. Another fellow with his son looked at her and was talking about that I should sand her and scope her,etc. etc. I told him very politely no, she would not be touched except for some oiling and a lot of TLC.

I'll never forget his reply, "Why not? It's just a cheap Russian rifle!"

Sufficed to say, I gave that gentleman and his son a history lesson of the M91 Dragoon, her history of being captured by the Finnish, and the rarity of the Dragoons still in their original condition. At least he admitted afterwards that he didn't know that there were rare variants of the Mosin Nagant.

Education really is the key in my opinion to preventing bubbafication.

[Head Wound]

I have a good buddy who lives out in Cali who recently started developing an interest in firearms and was looking to buy a rifle. Himself a Russian guy, I figured it would be righteous initiation for him to go with a Mosin. Well, no sooner than I sparked his interest he started talking about painting stocks and mounting scopes. My heart kind of sank right there.. I tried to explain to him as best I could without getting pushy, fell on deaf ears. I've been recommending Mosins to a few of my friends, but now I think I'll think twice before I do it again..

Same happened to me a few years back with an M38! I was shocked when my gift to my buddy was met with "I'm going to put it in an ATI plastic stock.
All is well now. I made a trade with him recently and got my M38 back with it's original stock as well as the plastic POS. AND the ammo he had! He's happy, I'm at peace.

[musketjon]

You just can't trust anyone from California.

Don't go there. I happen to be from Cali. I could say some things about your place of residency but there is mixed company on this forum.
Jon