M38 and M44 Carbines

[paul6892]

Greetings Gentlemen, in regards to Molot, are they a manufacture and an importer of Mosin Nagants ?

The reason I ask is that I was cleaning my M38 and M44 and found "KO-38 7.62x54r Made in Russia" ( "KO-44 7.62x54r Made in Russia" ) and the Molot Logo stamped on top of the barrel, forward of the rear sight, under the hand guard.

I bought the M38 from Buds Gun Shop and the M44 from Classic Firearms in June of this year.

Are the M38 and M44 imported by Molot and they are real Mosin Nagants

Or, they are Molot reproduction Fakes

See attached pictures

[Modean]

The short answer is no one really knows. There are lots of opinions on this issue, but little in the way of actual facts.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Very likely they are original Soviet era rifles that Molot has refurbished in part or whole. It is also possible that they have swapped some parts in either from old Soviet stockpiles, or of new manufacture. They are not saying, and as one member has reported, even inside Russia they do not know what Molot is up to. Molot is manufacturing at least one entirely new sniper type Mosin, so they do have the ability, and the access to parts to pretty much build any Soviet era Mosin from scratch if they wanted to.

[Miller Tyme]

My theory on Molot's is a simple one, it's a loop hole around the US/Russian agreement to ban the importation of military firearms. Remember almost all previous refurbs came from Ukraine, not Russia due to the agreement reached during the Clinton White House. By running these through a former military arsenal that is now a. " private company" and labeling them "hunting rifles" they are able to skirt the law and they can sell previously banned guns to the US, sort of like what the Romanian's do by making the WASR.

[Junk Yard Dog]

It seems they call them hunting rifles even inside Russia, and there is no way such a tactic would let them get around any law or agreement forbidding the importation of firearms into this country under the current administration. I am sure they have a very good reason for calling them hunting rifles and not milsurps, or antiques. By doing so they cover their asses, we can not later come at them and accuse them of selling fakes, rebuilt " antiques" or any such thing because they need only point out that they have not lied to us, they told us right off that these rifles were just "hunting" rifles and nothing more. Molot has done nothing wrong, they have not in any way misrepresented themselves or their product. We call these rifles milsurps, PU snipers, 91/30's , Soviet rifles, antiques, and so forth, Molot just calls them hunting rifles. Molot has never said they were not refinished, not new made, not anything, they just don't say anything at all.
It's sort of like some company hands you a packaged food product, say a meat treat of some sort, yet when you look for the list of ingredients you find there is no list, nothing at all. All you have is something that looks like a Slim Jim that has " meat treat" printed on the label. OK, maybe it's chicken, pork , or Beef, maybe Goat, maybe Camel and snake, or even ground up mice. Molot is the mystery meat of the milsurp collecting world, the only information we have is that the company will not give us any information.

[MarksmanTim]

It seems they call them hunting rifles even inside Russia, and there is no way such a tactic would let them get around any law or agreement forbidding the importation of firearms into this country under the current administration. I am sure they have a very good reason for calling them hunting rifles and not milsurps, or antiques. By doing so they cover their asses, we can not later come at them and accuse them of selling fakes, rebuilt " antiques" or any such thing because they need only point out that they have not lied to us, they told us right off that these rifles were just "hunting" rifles and nothing more. Molot has done nothing wrong, they have not in any way misrepresented themselves or their product. We call these rifles milsurps, PU snipers, 91/30's , Soviet rifles, antiques, and so forth, Molot just calls them hunting rifles. Molot has never said they were not refinished, not new made, not anything, they just don't say anything at all.
It's sort of like some company hands you a packaged food product, say a meat treat of some sort, yet when you look for the list of ingredients you find there is no list, nothing at all. All you have is something that looks like a Slim Jim that has " meat treat" printed on the label. OK, maybe it's chicken, pork , or Beef, maybe Goat, maybe Camel and snake, or even ground up mice. Molot is the mystery meat of the milsurp collecting world, the only information we have is that the company will not give us any information.

Excellent summary. I know a lot of us have rehashed this time and again. You must have this paragraph saved on your computer so you can just copy and paste at this point!

[Junk Yard Dog]

I am fortunate in that I did my milsurp accumulating years before the first Molot came out of Russian so this entire issue is no issue for me personally. There is a lot of talk out there when it comes to Molot, I immediately discount any of it coming from dealers or people accepting any sort of sponsorship from outfits selling Molots. They know nothing more than the rest of us, and that is nothing. We can only speculate, and by nature I am not a gambler with my money. If nothing more the Molots are still firearms, and still project lead downrange, they can still do all the things a hunting rifle is used for, and the price is not bad for the ordinary rifles if you just want something to use as a shooter. If you buy them with that in mind then you will never be disappointed.

[Meena]

Ok so if we want to try and avoid Molots what is the for certain marking on them to look for? I have read a lot of controversy about this also.

[Artemus]

I for one think the MOLOT MNs will be as collectible as any other refurb. I have owned 2 carbines with discrete (under the handguard) import marks. Both also had the large billboard US stamps on the receivers. If you find a great bore and a good looking MOLOT rifle that you plan to enjoy shooting, you should not be put off buying it. If you are really into collecting milsurp weapons with the expectation of value increases, you should be looking for non-refurbished examples. The funny thing is I have seen some MOLOT rifles that sure do not look like ANY refurbing was done (at least recently), just stamped. Perhaps not since they were put up for the cold war. The MOLOTs run the spectrum of pristine to rusty. Like other refurbs. Just shoot and enjoy!

[Junk Yard Dog]

Ok so if we want to try and avoid Molots what is the for certain marking on them to look for? I have read a lot of controversy about this also.

The typical Molot marking is shown in the photo posted by the original poster at the top of the thread. One way to avoid Molots is to collect only Finn Mosins, or M1891's, 91/59's, and Mosin not made in the USSR during communism. Molot only deals with Soviet era M91/30's and the carbines as well as PU snipers.

[paul6892]

Good morning Gentlemen, I really appreciate the responses.

The markings on the receivers and stocks indicate that whey are Real Mosin Nagants M38 and M44. I must assume that they are ? The Molot markings on the barrel tells me at some point, while they were in Russia (USSR) Molot had procession of them.

They are in excellent condition as I did paid about $250.00 for each one and they are great shooters.

It's a Gun; The propellant (gun powder) is ignited, powder explodes, gas pressure moves the projectile down the barrel, rifling (lands & groves) apply spin, projectile exits the muzzle, projectile fly’s a trajectory path down range, impact !

The fact that they are Guns is not the reason I wanted them, it’s the Historical significant.

I have five (5) 2nd Great Grand Uncles who were horse soldiers in Phillips Georgia Legion, Cavalry Battalion, Company “C” The Cherokee Dragons.
They all survived Gettysburg the War !

Guns they used, I believe were .52 cal ball & cap Carbines, Now that is a Gun I would love to have.

Thank you for your inputs


Paul H. Chastain
FCCS(SW)
USN Retired

[wingspar]

I have been reading and searching for info on what the Molot mark looks like off and on for days now, and I still don’t know. I’ve been refraining from asking this question, but ask it I must. In the photo at the beginning of this thread, what in that photo is the Molot mark? Is it the KO or is it one of the two symbols after the word Russia and before the #12?

What is the difference between Molot and Century Arms?

[Junk Yard Dog]

I have been reading and searching for info on what the Molot mark looks like off and on for days now, and I still don’t know. I’ve been refraining from asking this question, but ask it I must. In the photo at the beginning of this thread, what in that photo is the Molot mark? Is it the KO or is it one of the two symbols after the word Russia and before the #12?

What is the difference between Molot and Century Arms?

That entire laser etched marking is Molot applied.

[wingspar]

What is the difference between Molot and Century Arms?

That entire laser etched marking is Molot applied.[/quote]

Thank you. Is it usually under the hand guard?

[Junk Yard Dog]

What is the difference between Molot and Century Arms?

That entire laser etched marking is Molot applied.

Thank you. Is it usually under the hand guard?[/quote]
Sometimes it is, other times it is up by the muzzle, or on the receiver, pr a series of smaller stamps on every part. Laser etching like that is Molot, not Soviet. It tends not to be used that much for US importer import markings either as most seem to be machine engraved.

[wingspar]

Sometimes it is, other times it is up by the muzzle, or on the receiver, pr a series of smaller stamps on every part. Laser etching like that is Molot, not Soviet. It tends not to be used that much for US importer import markings either as most seem to be machine engraved.

Boy, I messed up that last quote. Thanks for the info.