very very unusual Finnish 1891/24

[Sven278]

About a year and a half ago (that would be around April 2012) I picked up this rifle online for $395. She's an M/24, rare in itself. However there seems to be a completely undocumented marking on the barrel.



ERMA ERFURT

I looked through mosin-nagant.net as well as 7.62x54r.net. No mention of Erma Erfurt making barrels for Mosins. This leads me to believe I have something special here.

The rifle is a typical Finnish M/91, SA marked as most of them are. I believe the gun was originally a Remington or New England Westinghouse based on the walnut stock and I do believe there is the "English Contract" stamp on the stock which would confirm this. The handguard is a Finnish replacement. I have not disassembled it to look at the tang date and maker, and likely never will, I do not want to break anything or screw it up in any way. This rifle is deactivated so I will never need to take it apart for cleaning anyway. The barrel has the usual "step" to it and the bolt is an Izhevsk judging from the Bow and Arrow mark.




The stock has extensive scars from this rifles service in the Winter and Continuation wars. Deep scratches abound. If the rifle had a voice, imagine the stories she could tell, where she fought. How those battlescars got there. My grandfather personally fought in the continuation war. Did he encounter this rifle in his service? We will never know. He was a Sergeant so likely carried a KP/31 "Suomi" submachinegun.




This veteran is retired now, however. As stated it has been deactivated and will enjoy many years of peaceful reflection.



Re-activating a weapon is illegal in Canada and would land me in prison, so it is safe to say it will never fire a shot again. Mods, please don't ban me for owning a dewat. I wasn't the one who did it or ordered it done. I bought it that way.

Looking down the sights:




An overview of the rifle and my deactivated KP/31 "Suomi"



So, comrades of Russian Mosin-Nagant forum, what can you tell me about my rifle? What are your theories about the origins of this marking? What is the approximate value? (It is not for sale at any price BTW)

*the pictures are too big or something, can someone help me?

[zeebill]

Deactiveted to me in the US maybe $200 or so and double that if it was fireable. I once had a deactivated Type 38 Jap rifle which I bought for $135 and sold for $175 to a buddy who knew what he was getting and it became a wallhanger. What is the story on the short barrelled Soumi in the picture. That has to be taxed and registered in this country, how about up there? Don't tell me that is deactiveted too! Nice looking rifle but both look kind of "restored" which will further reduce their value. The semi Soumi's for sale with a longer barrel here are between $400 and $500 by the way. They are a ball to shoot by the way and buying all that 9mm has put a great strain on my wallet. Thanks for sharing your weapons with us even if they are not fireable. Bill

[gurn]

Very interesting. I would guess that ERMA ERFURT sent them a few barrels either as a small order or as a sales pitch. Very cool.

[desdem12]

WOW that is sweet Erfurt is a german gun maker. I have an Erfurt gew 88. Not sure how it got on the barrel but it could have been when the barrels were made that the first one might have had this mark for testing before they accepted the barrels. Just a straight out guess.

[Sven278]

Deactiveted to me in the US maybe $200 or so and double that if it was fireable. I once had a deactivated Type 38 Jap rifle which I bought for $135 and sold for $175 to a buddy who knew what he was getting and it became a wallhanger. What is the story on the short barrelled Soumi in the picture. That has to be taxed and registered in this country, how about up there? Don't tell me that is deactiveted too! Nice looking rifle but both look kind of "restored" which will further reduce their value. The semi Soumi's for sale with a longer barrel here are between $400 and $500 by the way. They are a ball to shoot by the way and buying all that 9mm has put a great strain on my wallet. Thanks for sharing your weapons with us even if they are not fireable. Bill

Unfortunately my Suomi is also deactivated. You can get semi only Suomis here in Canada but they do have to have the longer barrel. You could get a gunsmith to cut down the barrel to the original length but then it would need to be registered as a "Restricted Firearm" because of the barrel being less then 18.5" long. Restricted firearms may only be discharged at pre-approved ranges, need a special license and must be registered. All handguns and AR-15s are restricted as well as rifles with barrel lengths less than 18.5" as stated.

On the other hand I do have a live Polish Model 1944 carbine, 1952 dated. Got it recently and have yet to shoot it. And this will really kill you folks - I own a deactivated SVT-40

[millman]

Aren't working SVTs available up there for pretty cheap?

[shmlnaaa]

I have heard of Erma Erfurt m/24's before. They are VERY rare. The only one I know of in North America was a deactivated on in Canada, so I assume this is the same rifle. The guy who did the deactivation was a collector who deactivated all (?) of his collection because he was worried about future gun laws being passed. I don't want to say much more on the topic or else I'll just get mad. I'm not a fan of "deactivating" weapons, especially historical relics.

[Hlavinka]

I have heard of Erma Erfurt m/24's before. They are VERY rare. The only one I know of in North America was a deactivated on in Canada, so I assume this is the same rifle. The guy who did the deactivation was a collector who deactivated all (?) of his collection because he was worried about future gun laws being passed. I don't want to say much more on the topic or else I'll just get mad. I'm not a fan of "deactivating" weapons, especially historical relics.

I think you are correct, In all counts.

[Hlavinka]

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread. ... rma+Erfurt

I think it's the same rifle

[davesstuff1]

[Fishin Finn]

My grandfather personally fought in the continuation war. Did he encounter this rifle in his service? We will never know. He was a Sergeant so likely carried a KP/31 "Suomi" submachinegun.

Terveisiä Sven. I too am a Finn, Finland born, and immigrated to the US. I retired a few years back and have acquired quite an interest in my Finnish ancestors, Finnish military history, and consequently Finnish military weapons.

My grandfather fought with the White Guard in 1918 supporting the Battle of Tampere, and later in Karelia at Kämärä, where he was wounded. He also fought in the Winter War. I have great uncles and uncles that fought in the Winter, Continuation, and Lapland Wars.

One uncle was a lifer in the Finnish Army and was an armorer. I recall going to his facility in Koria as a kid, and there were probably 20 or 30 Suomi subguns in a rack on the wall. What an impression it made on me.

I too picked up an M24 in an online auction for $365 about a eight months ago. It has an Izhevsk receiver from 1914, a counterbored Bohler-Stahl barrel. I also have a Tikka M91, an M91/30 Tikka with a round-receiver, and an M39 VKT. I like to shoot them all, a part of living history.

Welcome aboard. Ray

[TopperT]