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I've got a problem that I'm sure someone will be able to give advice on. I think I saw a thread on this once but didn't know what to search for to try and find it, so I'll give my own thread a try. I recently got spam can and tried out the first 25 rounds out of it today. Turned out there were six of 'em that I just plain could not close the bolt on. And on each of these, there is a an area on the back of the rim edge that has a scrape in it. (You can barely see it on these pics!) It's not deep, so I'm surprised that amount of friction would stop the bolt from closing. Most of the other rounds were what I'd say a normal amount of difficult to close on. I don't think it's a headspace issue because I checked it with a gauge before ever firing a round. Also, this is an issue only with this ammo. I had some a friend of mine loaded for me, and they were just fine. So any ideas what's the deal?
Inspect ammo against ammo that works. Cant see the spot you refer of. If I had to guess I would say that your extractor has a burr on the face and sometimes it is not clearing the rounds. I bet if you try these again they would work. Throw up a pick of your bolt head and extractor face or if it does have a burr then lightly polish and it will work better.
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Hmmm, well I don't see anything that might be the problem, but maybe you can. From that second pic, it does look like the left side it worn down a little, but that's the only abnormality I can see. Here ya go, take a look:
Did you check it with the Go gauge as well as the No/Go?
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
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Junk Yard Dog wrote:Did you check it with the Go gauge as well as the No/Go?
No, sir, I only bought the one. Are you thinking I'd better fork out some more cash for the other one, too? Hate to, but I'll do it if you say so! I mean, geeze, 35 rounds of the non-surplus stuff with no issues, and then this? I'm stumped!
I'd say an extractor issue. the reloads being brass are softer and you wouldn't notice it grabbing as much like you do the steel rims. The extractor is really the only thing that could cut into the very edge of the rim like you show. If headspace is good, check and or remove the extractor and clean the slot it goes in. It could have hardened gunk built up under it and not be able to move as freely as it should. Also, polishing like Desdem helps some also.
If you have another Mosin, compare the two side by side, the extractor on this bolt could be bent slightly.
I said I was an addict. I didn't say I had a problem.
Greasemonkey wrote:I'd say an extractor issue. the reloads being brass are softer and you wouldn't notice it grabbing as much like you do the steel rims. The extractor is really the only thing that could cut into the very edge of the rim like you show. If headspace is good, check and or remove the extractor and clean the slot it goes in. It could have hardened gunk built up under it and not be able to move as freely as it should. Also, polishing like Desdem helps some also.
If you have another Mosin, compare the two side by side, the extractor on this bolt could be bent slightly.
Yeah, I've never taken the extractor out, so it could be just because of the gunk, I suppose. Didn't want to risk breaking it or something. But I'll see what I can do with it. I don't have another Mosin, unfortunately.
Well, I can't get that extractor out to save my life. I'm probably going to have to go buy some tools to do it. Can't find a brass anything about here - not a hammer, not a punch, anything! But I think I may have found the problem: I can't get a bullet to seat in the bolt face at all. I think it's the inside of the rim of the bolt that's making the scrapes on the back of the shells. So if it won't fit under the extractor, would tapping it out a little the other way, so then it wouldn't be flush on the other end, help? Here's what it looks like:
I may not be of much help as my experience with Mosins is still limited, but posting to this thread might help, and might not. If not, I, and maybe someone else might still learn something.
I tried this with brass as I don’t have any steel casings, and I did this with an empty casing. Note that my first photo looks like yours, but with a very slight motion, the case slid under the extractor as shown in my second photo. Keep in mind that when you close the bolt on a round, you are doing so with force. The rim of the case won’t just fall into place under the extractor.
First thing I would do is make sure your extractor is flush with the bolt at the other end. If not, tap it until it is flush. You can find a simple brass hammer at your local hardware store. Brass punches might be a little more difficult to find, but you can order them online. There are some good videos on YouTube on removing the extractor and cleaning it.
Yep, I think a trip to the hardware is going to be necessary. The extractor is perfectly flush on the other end. Can't even feel where it ends and the bolt begins. I actually saw on one of the YouTube videos where the guy pushed the rim under the extractor by hand, so I thought it was supposed to go in that easily.
The extractor should come out the rear of the bolt head, the initial force to move it is generally high, but once it moves, it generally comes out easily.
Here is a well worn Finn bolt and steel case, the case head drops right in and latches and holds the case, even upside down. Also, the case will spin and leave no marks on the rim or cse. I did the same thing with a brass case, no marks on the rim either. Have you checked for possible burrs on the extractor it's self, a burr will catch and dig, the extractor is harder than the casing.
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I said I was an addict. I didn't say I had a problem.
I have had your issue before. Make sure there are no burrs on the inside of the ring of the bolt head face, also make sure the extractor is not bent to far toward the center of bolt head face. The back side of the extractor should be almost flus with outside ring of bolt head. If that doesn't work and you can't get the extractor out, use a small screw driver to slide under extractor. I have been able to remove some gunk this way and if it needs to be adjusted toward the outside of bolt head it can be gently pried here to adjust. Be careful the extractor is very strong but brittle, go easy. Good luck, and keep us posted!
rvgunner wrote:I have had your issue before. Make sure there are no burrs on the inside of the ring of the bolt head face, also make sure the extractor is not bent to far toward the center of bolt head face. The back side of the extractor should be almost flus with outside ring of bolt head. If that doesn't work and you can't get the extractor out, use a small screw driver to slide under extractor. I have been able to remove some gunk this way and if it needs to be adjusted toward the outside of bolt head it can be gently pried here to adjust. Be careful the extractor is very strong but brittle, go easy. Good luck, and keep us posted!
Okay, this is helpful. The back of the extractor is flush on one side, and lower on the other. It must be twisted, or something. Or maybe there's gunk under it that has it pushed further up on one side and not on the other. I tried to bend it out just a little this morning, then I reassembled the bolt, and it seems to cycle better than it did before. (Either that, or I'm imagining it!) I'm going to see if that little bit of adjustment will actually help with the ammunition problem. It's turning out to be a goose chase trying to track down the tools. Might have to order them online if I still end up needing to take it apart.
I agree with the above suggestions that it is probably the extractor giving you trouble, although I recently acquired a Finnish Mosin that had a burr on the face of the chamber and would not close on anything!! I ended up polishing it out and got it fixed.
As for removing the extractor, a brass drift should do it but it sounds like you don't have one. You did mention having a friend who made some reloads for you... does this friend live close by? I have previously used a reloading press to remove extractors. It works pretty well actually. Here is a pic from a few years ago where I stuck the bolt head in the press and used it to pop the extractor out:
EDIT- I just looked at my post and the photo shows me INSTALLING the extractor.... I can't seem to locate the removal pic but it is the same, just with the bolt head flipped over
Last edited by Flyin Brian on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Flyin Brian wrote:As for removing the extractor, a brass drift should do it but it sounds like you don't have one. You did mention having a friend who made some reloads for you... does this friend live close by? I have previously used a reloading press to remove extractors. It works pretty well actually.
One of the guys on YouTube said a 1/8" punch would fit perfectly in the extractor channel, and my Amazon search came up with a drive pin punch, so it looks like I may be getting it, but I understand it's different than a drift punch. Yep, that friend is close by, and the idea of using the reloading press for this is pretty smart! I'm just short of asking for his help on this one, but I'm too stubborn not to exhaust all the options to get it done myself first.
Flyin Brian wrote:As for removing the extractor, a brass drift should do it but it sounds like you don't have one. You did mention having a friend who made some reloads for you... does this friend live close by? I have previously used a reloading press to remove extractors. It works pretty well actually.
One of the guys on YouTube said a 1/8" punch would fit perfectly in the extractor channel, and my Amazon search came up with a drive pin punch, so it looks like I may be getting it, but I understand it's different than a drift punch. Yep, that friend is close by, and the idea of using the reloading press for this is pretty smart! I'm just short of asking for his help on this one, but I'm too stubborn not to exhaust all the options to get it done myself first.
Keep at it. You will get it.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
Well, I ended up ordering that hammer and punch from Amazon, and used 'em to take the extractor out this morning. Not a big deal once you have the right tools! So what I found was that the extractor was definitely bent. So I put it in the vice and carefully bent it out. After cleaning it all, reoiling and putting it all back together, I can see a definite improvement! I can slide an empty casing right under it, for one! I hope that it's not bent out too far now, is my only concern with that. Also, I think the bolt cycles better. However, there's still the issue where it's even on one side with the side of the bolt and it sticks out on the other (see pics). I hope this won't be a problem, but I wanted to know what you all thought before I decided to tinker with it. If I don't need to, I won't. I feel lucky enough I didn't break it yet!
This thread is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have an issue I discovered yesterday with a bolt head on a rifle I had wanted to take out of the 'locker' and shoot........and this one had the same issue. I benefited from the responses to your thread and thank all who sent the great pictures. Facts are ONE NEVER is done learning about these rifles.
TopperT wrote:This thread is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have an issue I discovered yesterday with a bolt head on a rifle I had wanted to take out of the 'locker' and shoot........and this one had the same issue. I benefited from the responses to your thread and thank all who sent the great pictures. Facts are ONE NEVER is done learning about these rifles.
Boy, is that good to hear! I'm always really reluctant to start another "I have a problem, help me fix it" thread, so I'm glad this benefited someone other than just myself. This is an awesome place to learn!
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