Dec GunBroker Sales and 2011 averages

[OLD OUTLAW]

Outlaw, as you are aware, I am still a wannabe in the SKS world. But I can already agree with your comments. As I am researching on Google, 80% of what I find is how to modify this, add that, cut here, drill there...its endless. To top it off, you can buy just about any aftermarket device you can dream of. Very little information I've found has anything to do with the history or real story behind these weapons. Fortunately, like you all, there's some die hard preservationists out there that dedicate a large portion of their lives to collecting and telling the stories. I know you've heard it before...but I for one am very glad you all came this way. Your dedication is both appreciated and respected

That means a lot to me MN. And the others with me here now I am sure. Too many, in fact most I suspect, of forums have been taken over by
non-preservationists. It is dis-heartening to an old gun man like me. The respect for History is disappearing I fear.

Thank You Wolfy!

[boomer34]

MN Fan-I would suggest that you get onto the GunBroker web site, register and set yourself op what is called "My GunBroker". That allows you to select from all the auctions going on and if you search "Russian SKS" you can choose only Russians to put into that list. Then you can follow any specific auction that interests you and add to it daily as new auctions come up. The finished auctions on your list will be saved in that list as auctions that have ended.

This will allow you to view many (30-50) guns every day to observe or choose the number that fits what you may be looking for. You can then study what is offered within the time constraints of the auction, learn by looking at a lot of Russians efficiently and see the prices both asked by the seller as a starting price or reserve (reserve is not shown) and what the rifle actually sells for.

You may actually see one you want to bid on. If you do, set in your mind the top dollar you are willing to pay. When the bidding reaches that point, stop. There will be others for you to try for. A surprising fact about GunBroker is that some very nice Russians go for the starting price and just the one bid at the starting price. Auctions that draw the group that want Russians for $199.50 with no reserve and a starting price of $0.01 never end up there. It will be considerably higher and maybe much higher.

If you do buy on GunBroker remember there is shipping, usually about $25-30 and the FFL fee raising the cost of the rifle to you. Whatever the case for you, GunBroker can be an avenue of learning that can be used at the local gun shops or gun shows for comparison shopping.

[Drago]

Seems to be the case Drago.

Can you pull the numbers off you spread sheets that would indicate the number of refurbs sold, their average price, the number of nonrefurbs sold and their average price for last year? It would make a base to start monthly comparisions from about the change in prices.

Just pulling out the December prices 21 refurbs averaged $398 and 3 nonrefurbs averaged $495. There was a $355 nonrefurb that got by people and that pulled that average way down. Otherwise the nonrefurb average would have been around $550.

I am saving my xl monthly spread sheet in a seperate file that I can email you if you want to use them to help compile your stats. It should be "live" when you get it. I have only saved December and will do the same for the coming months.

Don,

That's pretty much why I started collecting similar data to yours, was to see what the averages truly are between the refurbs and non-refurbs, and also between different categories. I also wanted to look at trends in time of day, time of month, number of bidders, etc.

Somehow, my numbers differ from yours. I know you had a bubba or two that I didn't count, but we are way off on our non-refurb quanties. I'm not sure why, but I know Gunbroker can be quirky during lookups of ended sales. I always lookup using "Russian SKS". In my data, I also list the auction number for quick reference up to 90 days. I may have given a rifle a non-refurb status, that you didn't, but there was a sweet '51 non-refurb that went for $650 that I didn't see in your list. I do make mistakes sometimes, but we all know how crappy sellers' pics can be. Sometimes it's just a guess. Also, I rarely differentiate between a 55 and a 56, simply calling them a 55/56 or better known as "undated". I only list a rifle as a '55 if is top cover dated as such. Some might cringe at this...Oh well.

At any rate, here's the data I collect on a monthly basis and my averages are called out at the bottom. This was an especially low avg month for non-refurbs.

Click pic for higher resolution

[boomer34]

Thanks Drago-That's how I search my list. I think I had the three nonrefurbs I missed on my list at one time or the other during Dec but they did not appear in the final list. I have updated my Dec to include them.

[Drago]

Thanks Drago-That's how I search my list. I think I had the three nonrefurbs I missed on my list at one time or the other during Dec but they did not appear in the final list. I have updated my Dec to include them.

Well, just so you don't feel too badly, I spotted two on your list that I didn't have, so I updated it before I posted here. Let me know if any of my "non-refurbs" are not, in your eyes. I also couldn't find a 2nd Izhevsk, which you listed.

This one, I listed as a "possible" non-refurb, but just couldn't tell.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =266068506

I listed this rifle as a non-refurb, as well, but it really needed more pics of cartouches around the crossbolt. What do you think?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =263939248

[boomer34]

I think that the first one posted is out as a nonrefurb. The lack of a Tula Star on the stock shot does it for me. I think it is a replacement stock.

The second one has a clear shot of the proper nonrefurb stock look. The angle of the camera on the front crossbolt is bad but blowing up that area I can see faint markings below and to the right that may be some of the acceptance marks we like to see there. So I would go along with that being a nonrefurb.

The only time that you get to a point, in my understanding, where the Tula emblam is not on the left side of the stock is the case of the 55 and 56 rifles that were in transition to the final Letter rifles. The Letter rifles did not generally have the Tula emblam but they might. I think I have seen one or two that did have the emblam. But, 54 or younger with a stock that has only the serial number (no XXXX) and no Tula emblam means a replacemant stock to me. Of course, the XXXX have to be replacement stocks on refurbs. The Izzys were stopped in 54 so you have no Letter rifles from there.

The 54 Izhevsk you missed is http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =262526011

[Drago]

I think that the first one posted is out as a nonrefurb. The lack of a Tula Star on the stock shot does it for me. I think it is a replacement stock.

The second one has a clear shot of the proper nonrefurb stock look. The angle of the camera on the front crossbolt is bad but blowing up that area I can see faint markings below and to the right that may be some of the acceptance marks we like to see there. So I would go along with that being a nonrefurb.

The only time that you get to a point, in my understanding, where the Tula emblam is not on the left side of the stock is the case of the 55 and 56 rifles that were in transition to the final Letter rifles. The Letter rifles did not generally have the Tula emblam but they might. I think I have seen one or two that did have the emblam. But, 54 or younger with a stock that has only the serial number (no XXXX) and no Tula emblam means a replacemant stock to me. Of course, the XXXX have to be replacement stocks on refurbs. The Izzys were stopped in 54 so you have no Letter rifles from there.

The 54 Izhevsk you missed is http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =262526011

I think you're right about the 54 just being in a new stock. I now remember seeing that 2nd Izhevsk, because that one was sold by AlamoScout. Strange it never came up in the search results. I have now added it to my sales sheet. I have a total of 30 sold, not counting two that you listed as Bubba's. For my purposes, I don't consider Bubba's as Russian rifles any longer. One was really sad, because it was a Letter gun. Hell, they are all sad. The Bubba rifles could get their own category, but it would be in the "junk shooter" category and personally, I'm not interested in them. They only skew the data.

[boomer34]

Usually there are only two or three Bubbas a month. Those in the Monte Carlo stocks can usually be rebuilt with a new stock and handguard and many times the seller has the original funiture.

I get very amused at the seller who has hung a world of plastic on an SKS and asks $800 for it. Now there are SKSs that I would pay $800 for but there would not be any plastic on them.

[boomer34]

I pulled an interesting number from my GunBroker statistics for the last 16 months in response to a poster on another board. The subject was the value of a Russian. The poster stated that he thought they were not that valuable even the rare ones.

FACT: Out of 674 Russian rifles sold on GunBroker the last 16 months, 67 were sold at $500 or above.

Understand that these were to very good Russians that were in superior shape or were a specific collector item.

There are plenty of good Russians available in the $350-450 range, the really good ones are going to cost more unless you uncover one that is being overlooked on the auction site.

[Drago]

I agree, Boomer. I have only been collecting Russians for a little over a year. My first 5 Russians were all bought for under $400, including a rather rare small font and small star '55. I acquired these first 5 from Dec 2010-Feb 2011. There were two Letter "D's" in that first group and I paid $350 and $375 for those. My next Russian purchased was a '54 non-refurb and I got it for $425. After that it seemed that my normal cost were $450 and up. The only SKS's I seem to find for under $400 these days are Chinese. Occasionally, I'll spot a "good deal" under $400, but it's becoming harder and harder to find those. Now, I'm talking collectible Russians, not shooters. Just in the past couple days on Gunbroker, several "shooter" class Russians have sold for well under $400, but all have been Heavy BBQ'd or missing the original receiver covers with scopes mounted on them.

One sold at $280 and it was only missing the orig top cover, sitting in a Laminate stock.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =266453791

Another went for $288 and aside from it missing the bayonet, cleaning rod and orig top cover, at that price it would be a perfect rifle to use as a shooter.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =267251101

Neither of these is now "collectible" per se, but a Russian is a Russian and those are very good prices for what they are.

Sales for the new year have blasted out of the gate quickly with 7 Russians already sold for this month. The last time I saw that many Russians sold on GB by the 4th of the month was in July. Hopefully, this is a good sign and some killer deals will be had. NOW is the time to be looking for a Russian if you don't already have one.

[OLD OUTLAW]

Drago, I agree now is the time to start looking. The Russian Hunting Season for me begins about January 30th. and continues through the end of April.
This is the time frame I find my very best collectable Russian non-refurb originals.

[Drago]

Drago, I agree now is the time to start looking. The Russian Hunting Season for me begins about January 30th. and continues through the end of April.
This is the time frame I find my very best collectable Russian non-refurb originals.

OO, it will be fun to watch what you find this year, as it was last year. I'm pretty much done collecting SKS's now that I finally have my personal Holy Grail, a '49 ex-DDR, so more for someone else!!

[MN Fan]

MN Fan-I would suggest that you get onto the GunBroker web site, register and set yourself op what is called "My GunBroker".

Hey boomer...yep, I am registered. But, that's the frustrating part lol. The CCR hasn't shown up yet and I can't find a FFL here in Omaha to do transfers. Omaha has its own gun laws and I think the dealers gave up doing transfers. There's a few listed on GB's dealer network, but everyone I contacted replied that they were no longer doing it. I do use it as a resource to compare with something I find locally. I am going to start using "My Gunbroker" as you suggested though...I hadn't thought of compiling certain weapons and following them during the auction.

Thanks man...

[JoeR]

Remember when you could get them all day long for $159? I got my C&R and then prices went nuts...

On a related topic, do you guys think that certain AK-47 rifles will ever be C&R ? I don't go look at the ATF site to see if there are changes from year to year like a guy should, just wondered what people who know tons more than me think on it. They were built long ago but since they are still being made I figured that killed any chance of it ever making it to us with a C&R.

Joe

[desdem12]

They will never be on the list. Someone posted a report on the old forum about them banning any semi autos from making it onto the list. They even tried to stop M-1 carbines from being imported back from korea.

[Bareassmeagain]

Boomer great job as always on the stats. I have a feeling January is going to be a very surprising gunbroker sks sales month. BAMA

[Woodbeef]

Thanks Drago-That's how I search my list. I think I had the three nonrefurbs I missed on my list at one time or the other during Dec but they did not appear in the final list. I have updated my Dec to include them.

Well, just so you don't feel too badly, I spotted two on your list that I didn't have, so I updated it before I posted here. Let me know if any of my "non-refurbs" are not, in your eyes. I also couldn't find a 2nd Izhevsk, which you listed.

This one, I listed as a "possible" non-refurb, but just couldn't tell.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =266068506

I listed this rifle as a non-refurb, as well, but it really needed more pics of cartouches around the crossbolt. What do you think?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =263939248

Take a good look at the trigger guard on the first one also. The numbers are spaced too far apart in the middle,plus you can see file marks under the numbers from when it was scrubbed.

The 2nd one could have been sanded and reshallaced. Need more pics to be sure though of it being a non-refurb or not.

[OLD OUTLAW]

The first one is an obvious scrub. The file marks tell the truth of the matter.
Second one I just honestly cannot tell for certain, therefore I would not have bid it personally.

[Drago]

I'm not so sure guys. I don't think the space between the numbers really has anything to do with whether or not it has been scrubbed. Why would it? I also think those file marks you are seeing are more the effect of the flash angle, than actual file marks from scrubbing. Those marks can be seen clear up and around the bend of the trigger guard, but the flash angle doesn't make them as prominent. If they are file marks, then why would they file it all the way around? I think if we saw this rifle in natural light, we'd see that they are just the regular machining marks that are normal on a milled handguard. I have a lot of SKS's that I can see this on, but I know they haven't been scrubbed. I could be wrong, though. Been wrong often lately...:(

Either way, neither of these rifles' spoke to me and based on the limited pics, I wouldn't have even ventured a bid.