1918 Remington - need help

[Shotar]

I need help identifying my new to me 1918 Remington Mosin. This rifle was sourced from an estate sale in Bridgeport, CT. The rifle is unmolested, and appears to be well used and all original in that the wear on the parts appears even overall. It is serviceable, and has good rifling but dark, dirty bore with good crown, I intend to shoot it tomorrow. If anything was changed out it was done a very very long time ago. All parts are Remington. Now, for the details.

It is serial number 135. The buttplate matches this serial number and it has the correct walnut stock. The bolt is all matching but has a different 5 digit serial number and the magazine has a different six digit serial number. Again, the general use and wear matches the overall age and condition of the rifle. I will post pics when I can get a decent one. Now as to markings.

It is not import marked, and I can detect no foreign military markings at all. It is not US flaming bomb marked that I can detect. It does have a pie shaped stamp in the stock, just behind the trigger guard, and it does have the correct Remington mark on the right side of the stock. Now the strange part, it does have a square acceptance mark on the top of the stock that is very difficult to read. This mark is in the form of a group of stars forming a square. Inside this square are three capital lettered initials, the first being H or N, the middle a legible G, and the last being an H or N. Below these are 4 numbers the last two being legible 67.

HGN
x67
bordered by stars.

I can find nothing about these markings. They are too faint to photograph at least with the camera I have, and I am very reluctant to fill them in with white out to bring them out. Can anyone help me identify this rifle ?

[desdem12]

Sounds like a nice m91 but I am not familiar with the mark you are referring to. A picture would helpout for sure. Try taking it with a lot of light and from different angles. Some of the older collectors may know what it is. Welcome to the forum

[Shotar]

Thank you, I tried to get a pick, but the mark is just too light for my camera to pick up. I could not get chalk to stick deeply enough. The only thing I can think to do is fill it with correction fluid and then try again, but I'm not sure I could get the fluid back out. It is there, and you can see it, but very faded with time.

[racerguy00]

Really interesting! I've not seen that mark before. 1918s aren't that common and a lot were imported from Spain in the 50's. Maybe its a Spanish mark of some kind. I hope you can post pics of the whole rifle! If its your first m91, the barrel band screws turn the opposite way to loosen. Its easy to break the screws and ruin the bands if you aren't familiar with them. It happens a lot. Welcome to the forum.

[desdem12]

Don't do anything that can't be undone without damage. If you feel like posting one that might show it then that will do. Someone in the morning will probly know. I am surprised sometimes after loading pics that the flash brings out stuff you cant see at first on rifle stocks. Might be a german stock mark but doesn't sound like it. Is the Russian proof marks on the rifle, the imperial eagle at the top? Is there a SA in a box on the left side of the receiver? IS there eagle beak marks on it? I don't have a Remington yet so not sure what their cartouche looks like. I hadn't thought of Spanish but some were there.

[Shotar]

Imperial crest on both barrel and receiver. No SA marks, no foreign marks of any kind and no eagle or flaming bomb that I can find. I'm fairly mosin savvy, but this one has me stumped. I am wondering if this was an ROTC rifle, or if perhaps a Remington employee put one together off the line to take home. I presume that the low 1918 serial number could have been put together with late 1917 mag and bolt group, that would make sense to me.

The acceptance mark however does seem to follow the form of a US inspector's mark.

[entropy]

The correct cartouche for US Army acceptance for that period would be RAC, for Rinaldo A. Carr. I'm pretty certain from your description of the markings that it never left the US; the ROTC drill gun theory sounds about right; I'm guessing Remington then as now would strongly discourage 'takehomes' , ala Johnny Cash's Psychobilly Caddilac '46, '47, '48, '49, '50, '51 automobile....... It'd hard to stuff that 30" barrel down your pants anyhoo.

[Remington shop foreman] Johnson, is that a barrel in your pants, or are you happy to see me? [/Remington shop foreman]

[Junk Yard Dog]

Tens of thousands of unused Remington and Westinghouse M91's were sold as surplus for a few bucks each by the DCM during the 20's and 30's. A large number were hacked up into sporters by commercial outfits like Sears, or Bannerman, and a few like yours survive intact. These surplus rifles were from the haul Uncle Sam had to buy from Remington and Westinghouse to keep both companys solvent after the Russians defaulted on the contracts in 1917. They issued some rifles to US troops, some to cadets, most went unused and not US marked until sold off after the war. After teh North Russian adventure in 1919-1920 the government had no use for the Mosins, it didn't even need the millions of US M1917's it had on hand.

[zeebill]

Many of these rifles were sent to National Guard units (may have not called them that then) and they sometimes had no flying bomb on them. I have seen two of them in local guard armory museums. One in North or South Carolina by chance many years ago. It may not even exist now anymore but they were marked similar to this one you have found. Pictures would really help of the overall gun even. The markings as I remember were down along the woodline but I can not recall on which side of the rifle as it is too many years ago and I had been doing Civil War reenacting in the heat all day so was totally burned out. Sorry not much help there but not much to see and go on. Bill

[Junk Yard Dog]

State Militia, State Guard, National Guard, they always got what Uncle Sam wanted to get rid of. The NYS Guard was still using Remington rolling blocks as late as the 1920's, some states provided funding for top of the line weapons, and others existed on a shoestring. When my Grandfather was in the NYS guard in 1930 they had US M1903's.

[zeebill]

Leave it to JYD to help the old guy out on terminology. Thanks! My fall Friday is really hurting and I doubled up on the pain stuff so I am not thinking too awful well right now I landed right on my tailbone, which with my ample Germanic posterior should have been padded enough but the concrete floor won. Only time I don't hurt is when I am flat on my back in bed and I have too much I need to get done right now in the heart of gun show season. I vitually knock off completely for the Summer and ride the trike and go to Blue Grass festivals. Keeps me busy and I have little time for anything except some shooting from time to time. Bill Thanks Again Partner!

[Junk Yard Dog]

No problem Bill, took a flop myself last week, but the mud I landed in absorbed most of the impact, still hurts a bit were I caught the side of the loaders tire on the way down.

[Shotar]

Thanks guys, I'm waiting for sunlight to try to take photos outside in natural light where I might get better contrast. I am also going to try researching the rifle with Remington. I know a few of their executives. I think the cadet or Guard theory seems most plausible. My first thought when I saw the mark was that it was a Guard marking.

If it is not waist deep in snow tomorrow after work I'm going to take it out and shoot it. I think I'll try the Czech silvertip in it.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Executives old enough to remember the Great War contracts?

[Shotar]

No, not that old, but high enough in the pecking order that someone they refer does not get put on ignore.

I did fire the rifle today and it functioned fine. A little slippage in the front barrel band. It shot high and left at 100 yards. If I aimed lot right, we were on the gong. It will not be shot again until it's hundredth birthday. I did find the camera cord for our better camera and that is charging now. Hopefully picks later. I am also going to try to fill the cartouches with cake icing. Worst case it will easily wash out with warm water on a paper towel.

I will say that the bark was less than a 91/30 and much less than my er um, well, sporter ( there I said it, I bought it that way, and it shoots 1.5moa all day every day with silvertip. )

[Shotar]

[Shotar]

Notice that the stamp behind the trigger gaurd pre dates the repair in the stock. Also, the eagle in the square stamp does not look like the czar's eagle, but closer to a US eagle of the period, it is looking left. The letters HGN are visible and xx67 below that. There are a few smaller marking in circles above this one, but they are tough to make out.

[lthilsdorf]

Looks SCW to me. The 1918 date would make sense for that too. The markings behind the trigger guard there is an unknown marking found on a couple of M91/30 stocks with SCW features. Neat rifle. Wish I had it in my collection. Here's some more information on that wrist stamp from my website.

http://scwmosin.weebly.com/sun-stock-wrist-stamp.html

[Shotar]

Well, you're not that far away, let me know if you get towards Ashtabula. You can take a look at it. I still don't know what the other cartouche is? Rifle has no soviet markings that I can see.

[lthilsdorf]

Certainly. Been meaning to make a trip to the CMP sometime, but we'll see if that ever happens, ha!

But I'd certainly guess SCW on this one based on that marking. More photos of the overall rifle will certainly help with this too. As I said, real nice rifle. I have a 1918 myself that's a possible SCW example, but I think it's more Romanian if anything.