What is the verdict on Classic's M38's

[wolfstein]

The thread on Classic's M38's is so long and convoluted I don't know what to think. Are the M38's we get from there allowed to be shown on the forum? Mine was shipped today. It will be my only M38 and I would like to share it when it comes. If not, no problem, I still visit this place several times a day and will continue to do so. Just would like clarifacation.(it may have already been cleared up in that thread, I just missed it. Sorry if I did) Thanks

[bocephus]

We're still waiting to get them! Over at another forum they are saying that the boxes are prelabeled with year and factory. So for the most part we should only expect the most common ones since Molot is presorting them.

[desdem12]

That is different. That may mean they are sorting them for years and maybe upping the prices on rarer years then.

[MarksmanTim]

AIM did that with the M44's they got that came from Molot... They had a whole breakdown by year, laminate stock vs wood, and they broke out some Tula's I think. They charged different amounts for each.

[Longcolt44]

The thread on Classic's M38's is so long and convoluted I don't know what to think. Are the M38's we get from there allowed to be shown on the forum? Mine was shipped today. It will be my only M38 and I would like to share it when it comes. If not, no problem, I still visit this place several times a day and will continue to do so. Just would like clarifacation.(it may have already been cleared up in that thread, I just missed it. Sorry if I did) Thanks

We, the owners and administrators, have not been able to obtain any solid information on these rifles. Neither the suppliers or Molot will give us any factual information. You will be able to show us your rifle, just where to put it is the problem for now. Please contact one of the owners or administrators prior to posting . We may have them posted in one forum for now and move them later when and if we get solid information.

[surffly]

Sorry, stupid new guy question...
Why no pictures of molot rifles?

[MarksmanTim]

Sorry, stupid new guy question...
Why no pictures of molot rifles?

Their authenticity as pure, unmolested Milsurps is under question, and rightfully so with all of the unanswered questions surrounding them.

[surffly]

Oh, I see what you mean
Wouldn't that be on a case by case thing? If a person got s molot marked rifle that had matching numbers for example? Or is there a question that they are "faked" into matching.

Interesting issue, no easy solution really

[millman]

Matching numbers mean little on the refurbished Mosins. They are more often than not force matched. The issue with the Molot rifles is that we are not sure what is being done to them in order to have them imported as sporting rifles (No milsurps allowed from russia). Are they simply stamping on their logo on a legit Arsenal refurbished MN and reboxing them, or are they refinishing them themselves (Molot not being a government arsenal, we feel that this would violate our preservation policy here on this form), or who knows what. There are too many unanswered questions for anyone to be sure. Therefore, post your pics, but know that sometime in the future, they may be moved from the collectors forum, to another, as yet created, sub forum.

[redeuce]

When you receive it, let us know if it is counter bored.?

[surffly]

I have a few rifles and carbines coming from AIM this week.
Will try and give as much info as I can.

[Izhevsk762]

We're still waiting to get them! Over at another forum they are saying that the boxes are prelabeled with year and factory. So for the most part we should only expect the most common ones since Molot is presorting them.

I don't know if it's Molot or IO doing the sorting, but they have been sorted by year/factory.

So far I've seen two DDR M38s posted, so there are rare rifles in the batch.

[TrainWreck]

I got the two M38's from Classic today. After a quick look at them, I am satisfied as to their condition being as good as was advertised. One is a 44' Izhevsk M38 with a M44 stock. It has some very noticeable dings just in front of the butt plate. All the metal is in excellent condition, just like new. The bore is very shiny, bright and not counterbored. All numbers match except for the lined-out magazine floor plate. The other one is a 43' Izhevsk with a M38 stock and no dings in it. The metal is also in excellent condition, just like new. All the numbers match except for the lined-out magazine floor plate. The bore is also very clean, shiny and not counterbored. I don't know what was on any labels on the white boxes due to brown tape covering everything. Both rifles have Molot import marks and serial numbers on them. There is also an "IO" import mark at the end of the barrel. I haven't disassembled them to see the giant billboard hidden by the stock yet. For the price, I am satisfied with them.

[Junk Yard Dog]

It's the clean and shiny bores, perfect metal that has me wondering. I would say maybe 20% of the refurbs I bought had bores that came close to like new, and while the metal is refinished on all of them, it shows it's age under the blue more often than not. Light pitting, dings and deeper scratched, grind marks. Every report I have heard so far has remarked on the startlingly nice condition of the bores, it's as if none of these rifles ever saw war and years of issue to the Soviet army's. Great for a shooter, that's what you want to see, but to a collector who has been collecting Soviet refurbs for eight years and has amassed a good number of them it sets off alarm bells that something is not quite right. I just wish they would tell us what's up, if they are producing new barrels as well as other Mosin parts using the old tooling at Izhevsk that itself would be fascinating to see.

[rideandslidejim]

I thought that too !! But could they do that that in today economy and make ant profit ????

Jim

[Izhevsk762]

The pics I'm seeing of these M38s, some of them definitely saw some use. Typical wartime rough receivers, etc. Hard to tell for sure though without having one in my hand.

[GD2A]

Mine was delivered to my local dealer today; I'm supposed to pick it up tomorrow. Problem is I don't know 'spit' about old C&R guns as this is the first I've ever purchased. I'm sure my LGS will have some idea as to what is inside the box but if anybody on this forum is in South Florida I'd be happy to arrange a meeting and you could take a look in person. Apart from that I can post photos and learn as I go along.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Mine was delivered to my local dealer today; I'm supposed to pick it up tomorrow. Problem is I don't know 'spit' about old C&R guns as this is the first I've ever purchased. I'm sure my LGS will have some idea as to what is inside the box but if anybody on this forum is in South Florida I'd be happy to arrange a meeting and you could take a look in person. Apart from that I can post photos and learn as I go along.

This is a Ukrainian refurb, two of them actually, this is what a Soviet refurbished M38 looks like,

[Junk Yard Dog]

I thought that too !! But could they do that that in today economy and make ant profit ????

Jim

Russia's economy is shit, they had lots of cheap labor and expenses are low, so with the tooling already in hand they could make these from scratch, sell them cheap, and still turn a profit, the Mosin is a simple design. They are already making another scoped Mosin type rifle, seemingly from scratch.

[redeuce]

It's the clean and shiny bores, perfect metal that has me wondering. I would say maybe 20% of the refurbs I bought had bores that came close to like new, and while the metal is refinished on all of them, it shows it's age under the blue more often than not. Light pitting, dings and deeper scratched, grind marks. Every report I have heard so far has remarked on the startlingly nice condition of the bores, it's as if none of these rifles ever saw war and years of issue to the Soviet army's. Great for a shooter, that's what you want to see, but to a collector who has been collecting Soviet refurbs for eight years and has amassed a good number of them it sets off alarm bells that something is not quite right. I just wish they would tell us what's up, if they are producing new barrels as well as other Mosin parts using the old tooling at Izhevsk that itself would be fascinating to see.

Bingo on the bores. As I stated earlier, I'm monitoring most of the firearms boards and listening to the reviews. There hasn't been a ton of them posted yet, but so far every bore review is shiny or like new. So far, no counter bores. It's way too early to tell, but it seems about 70% of the existing M38's have been counter bored. If all of a sudden, there are multiple offerings of thousands of these with all pristine orignal bores, .....? I think the M44's are the same way.