Bummer...new SKY M39 damaged in shipping

[Deputy]

The shimming in these is mostly to accomplish floating of the barrel or magazine fit. This i think can be done in your own shop. The floating of the barrel helps with the accuracy.

More cool info. Thanks!

Dep

[Deputy]

I have to add to this by saying that my barrels do float so the shims are correct in the ones i have at least.

I will have to take a closer look at my Saco and VKT and see how the barrel sits. No need to look at the SKY, it is floating in a very undesireable way.

[bunkysdad]

Des, if you bought SOG m39's then you probably got Burns 39's, which in my opinion is just fine. I can't for the life of me see how you can state Deputy that the tuning is not done with the stocks when the placement of so many shims is so specific to the particular rifle. They surely are not an assembly line appearance or they would all be the same. Some don't have them and some have 1 or 2 and some have more.
When I bought my M39 I paid 25 shipping and an additional 20 bucks for a Plano hard plastic rifle case. It came from a gunshop in Ca. And arrived in Texas in perfect order. Pat Burns doesn't have that option but if she did I would pay it.

[Deputy]

Des, if you bought SOG m39's then you probably got Burns 39's, which in my opinion is just fine. I can't for the life of me see how you can state Deputy that the tuning is not done with the stocks when the placement of so many shims is so specific to the particular rifle. They surely are not an assembly line appearance or they would all be the same. Some don't have them and some have 1 or 2 and some have more.
When I bought my M39 I paid 25 shipping and an additional 20 bucks for a Plano hard plastic rifle case. It came from a gunshop in Ca. And arrived in Texas in perfect order. Pat Burns doesn't have that option but if she did I would pay it.

I'm not saying ALL shimmed rifles are bogus. I'm just saying there is no guarantee that ANY rifle you buy with shims on it has a stock that came with the rifle and is shimmed to that particular barrel/receiver. The Burns M39 rifles I have bought so far are ALL imports from Century Arms. And we all know what kind of stuff comes from Century Arms. I think Pat Burns probably got the cream of the crop from the garage sale she bought her rifles from. But I am not going to deceive myself into believing that ALL of the rifles she is selling are all coming with stocks that came that way from Finland and are/were specific to the rifle they come with. The temptation is just too great there to "improve" a rifle with a crappy stock but minty metal, with a rifle that is a turd metal-wise, but has a minty stock. Instead of having two rifles that are worth maybe $300, you have one rifle worth a LOT more. And you can keep doing this swapping until you are left with all crap, that you can sell for parts. And the demand for M39 parts is pretty high.

[desdem12]

Des, if you bought SOG m39's then you probably got Burns 39's

Was aware of that. I am a happy camper with the 2 i recieved from them. I bought them about 2 years ago now and they are perfect and the one i shot is dead on at 100 yds. One of them has about 10 shims in it and i can't remember the other but it has at least 5. If you have the rifle in a cradle you should be able to tell if the barrel is floating. I have no worries of where the rifle came from that i have and you might try to buy them from me but i wil just say it would be ALOT

[Junk Yard Dog]

Not every Finn has or needed shims, some never got issued and so never received the one on one attention required for that sort of accuracy testing. My shimmed M39 are all issued rifles, pop the action out of the stock and do some detective work. If the filth packed into the wood is the same grade as is plastered all over the action then chances are very likely that it has been together for a long time. Some of my M39's display an unusual combination of sand and black tar grease packed under the wood, Shims are welded in place by the crap, and I left these rifles exactly as I found them, carefully lowered the action back down in and tightened the screws. These M39's spent most of their service life as target rifles and training rifles, I am by no means sure that the sand and grease combo isn't some form of bedding, it is that solid. The rifles all shot amazingly well, so as the mess does no harm it stays. Pine needles in the mix also.

[Deputy]

Quick question...would an M91 laminated stock fit an M39?

[desdem12]

A quick follow up question... WHERE IS THIS Laminated M91 stock? Never heard of one ever

[catcracker]

I hope that "M91 laminated stock" wasn't from my laminated stock thread, where I was just using that as an example of what you would NOT expect to see.

[Junk Yard Dog]

There was never a laminated stock made for the M1891 rifle, only the M38, M44, and M91/30 had them. They do not work with the M39, or belong on one.

[Deputy]

A quick follow up question... WHERE IS THIS Laminated M91 stock? Never heard of one ever

Picky picky picky.

M91/30 Mark IV Model 0 Type 22 Version 5.

No problemo on it not working. I have a M91/30 Mark IV Model 0 Type 22 Version 5 that I can use it on. I just ordered one. If it fit the M39 it would have made a nice "interim" stock till the correct one arrives.

[desdem12]

Different barrel, length and thickness.

[Deputy]

Different barrel, length and thickness.

Ahhhhh....I see.

[Darryl]

I'm not saying ALL shimmed rifles are bogus. I'm just saying there is no guarantee that ANY rifle you buy with shims on it has a stock that came with the rifle and is shimmed to that particular barrel/receiver. The Burns M39 rifles I have bought so far are ALL imports from Century Arms. And we all know what kind of stuff comes from Century Arms. I think Pat Burns probably got the cream of the crop from the garage sale she bought her rifles from. But I am not going to deceive myself into believing that ALL of the rifles she is selling are all coming with stocks that came that way from Finland and are/were specific to the rifle they come with. The temptation is just too great there to "improve" a rifle with a crappy stock but minty metal, with a rifle that is a turd metal-wise, but has a minty stock. Instead of having two rifles that are worth maybe $300, you have one rifle worth a LOT more. And you can keep doing this swapping until you are left with all crap, that you can sell for parts. And the demand for M39 parts is pretty high.

What proof (facts) do you have that shows that Burns has switched stocks at any time? I'd really be interested in seeing that proof. I'd hate to have Burns tell the forums that they are libelous because we have no proof at all.

There is another member here that has claimed to have evidence that they have switched stocks. It's hazy at best because if the arsenals switched stocks, the evidence left behind could be from the arsenals. And it is impossible to tell if Burns did it or sometime in the past, the arsenal did it. So I'm looking for good proof, solid fact that it was done by Burns at any time.

I have heard this story of switching stocks on another forum. As it turns out, no one has ever been able to show any proof that this happened. In fact, it turns out that Burns may (or may not ) have stiffed this forum for some advertising money and that is what may have sparked a lot of this information on that forum.

I'm not saying they have never switched stocks because I just don't know for a fact. But, I'd love to know one way or another if this is true or not. So what proof do you have?


A little history: Pat had nothing to do with importing these rifles or buying them from a "garage sale". It was her husband that bought the entire lot of M39's and Century imported them into the US. That is why they almost have a lock on M39's to this day. There are a few other, but clearly the lions share was bought by Pat Burns husband (now deceased). They remove the barrels and look at the tang date to see if they can sell them as "antiques" (no FFL dealer needed). Yes, they charge more for an "antique" rifle, and that is why they do it. The company is owned now (after her husband passed away) by Pat Burns (his wife), but it is run by his son Bill (I think is his name) and he does most of the work there including inspections and setting the prices. Pat Burns husband got in a disagreement with the BATF and they yanked his license, but he (and now his wife) are allowed to sell off the remaining stock of M39's by a deal they worked out with the BATF.

If you don't want to show your proof on the forums, I will be more than happy to take the response off the forum (PM). But I'd love to see the proof so I can put this one to bed. One way or another.

Dolk
Owner

[Izhevsk762]

Just an FYI, the Lapin book has many inconsistencies and outright falsehoods. I wouldn't call it a reliable reference.

[zeebill]

I agree 100%! I will give him this after 5 printings he is starting to correct a lot of the wrong stuff he has in there and the beginning collector has to start with something! Most of the really good sources of reference are either out of print, too expensive for normal man, or dated. Online references like Ted's fine board reference and tuco's fine references online are the best places to look for information and are also kept somewhat up to date by the people who authored them. Bill

[Junk Yard Dog]

Just an FYI, the Lapin book has many inconsistencies and outright falsehoods. I wouldn't call it a reliable reference.

Considering the lack of cooperation on the part of the Russians in allowing information about the Mosin era to come out I am surprised he has even as much as he has to print in a book. So much in Mosin collecting is guesswork and maybe's.

[Deputy]

Dolk, please feel free to delete my post about switching stocks (can't PM...says your folder is full). Obviously I have no proof and I certainly don't want to disparage Pat Burns or her company. I am VERY happy with the two other M39s I purchased from her.

HOWEVER

The broken stock rifle I have IS going to have a switched stock and they don't seem to be reluctant to do it at all. They could have offered a refund or exchange for another SKY just as easily (and both options would have been more than acceptable to me). That doesn't help support the position that they don't switch stocks.

Dep

[Deputy]

Just an FYI, the Lapin book has many inconsistencies and outright falsehoods. I wouldn't call it a reliable reference.

Considering the lack of cooperation on the part of the Russians in allowing information about the Mosin era to come out I am surprised he has even as much as he has to print in a book. So much in Mosin collecting is guesswork and maybe's.

Quite true. And he described in the introduction of his book that he has been doing ongoing corrections in every edition. Compared to some much more expensive books on WW2 rifles that are FULL of errors ("The Backbone of the Wehrmacht" comes to mind) and have never been corrected, I find the Lapin book to be a reliable reference. There really isn't anything else available.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Along with the last remaining hoard of M39's and other Finn rifles Pat's husbands old company also scored a supply of spare parts that she has been selling on GB for years. M39 stocks do crack, it happens in the normal course of use and the Finns themselves would use older stocks they had in storage to repair rifles, or even when they built new rifles. The stock is cracked, it's either offer you another stock or refund you money, I once bought a "48" marked M39 from Pat and she forgot to even mention it had an early wartime straight grip stock on it that she could easily have swapped onto an early SAKO and I would have been none the wiser and her $200 richer. It wasn't done. I have known of at least three times when they made good on a damaged stock with a brand new stock, I guess they are out of them if they are now offering issued stocks as replacments. Pats husband bought out the remaining invantory of the Finnish government Mosins, they had some FFL trouble, the company shut down, and Pat and her son were allowed to sell off the stock as private citizens, that's why she always states that she is not a FFL holder.